Discussion concerning chickens per sq. ft etc.

[jamband]

So I constantly see this question come up about how big a coop and run should be. You basically see the same 4 sq ft inside 10 outside etc etc..... But to me there is a huge lack of information and consideration missing from that stance. The carrying capacity of the land those chickens are on. I am not trying to criticize or play high and mighty on a view I just want to here others view.

So from #'s I've seen its around 50 chickens/acre on a year round basis with more being ok in the growing season. SO that means someone on a 1/4 acre lot should have no more than say13 and that is only if they are spreading that manure over there entire 1/4 acre right?? I'm just curious because I see on here and I know people who totally exceed that. I just bring it up because alot of people keep chickens to be more self sufficient but if its done in a way thats damaging the soil and potentially water? Just curious. Peace

 

[darin367]

i've had very happy birds for a few years now... i have 2 coops, but they all pack like sardines into 1 coop, they seem to love it with 2 sq ft per bird.........they do it by choice..... as far as the run space, i'm exceeding that also.. my flock has always been healthy.........

 

[Judy]

I feel the 4/10 types of figures are intended to prevent the chickens from attacking each other, to give them enough space that they will hopefully be relatively content. The 50/acre type figures (I've read 87/acre) are related to sustaining a piece of land in a healthy state while having forage provide most or all of the food for the chickens. It's almost an apples and oranges thing.

I've never seen any research on whether, say, 6 chickens in 60 sq ft on a city lot is a real threat to the soil or water. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take long for the vegetation to return when the chickens are moved, and hopefully, natural soil filtration will take care of any fecal contamination.

I don't want to keep chickens in the 4/10 type spaces spoken of here, either. I have 10 at the moment, currently in a spent vegetable garden still full of greenery after a month or more there. They are normally in a 70'x70' yard, where they do not kill anywhere near all the vegetation, but they do eat all the grass, given a year or so.

 

[jamband]

I feel the 4/10 types of figures are intended to prevent the chickens from attacking each other, to give them enough space that they will hopefully be relatively content. The 50/acre type figures (I've read 87/acre) are related to sustaining a piece of land in a healthy state while having forage provide most or all of the food for the chickens. It's almost an apples and oranges thing.

I've never seen any research on whether, say, 6 chickens in 60 sq ft on a city lot is a real threat to the soil or water. I can tell you from experience that it doesn't take long for the vegetation to return when the chickens are moved, and hopefully, natural soil filtration will take care of any fecal contamination.

I don't want to keep chickens in the 4/10 type spaces spoken of here, either. I have 10 at the moment, currently in a spent vegetable garden still full of greenery after a month or more there. They are normally in a 70'x70' yard, where they do not kill anywhere near all the vegetation, but they do eat all the grass, given a year or so.

I get the bird health part of the sq ft. But what I've seen for the 50/acre was on manure load I think. I dont see anyway you could feed 87 chickens off 1 acre of forage alone but that would be awesome. Do you happen to recall where you saw that? not because I dont believe you, just because I am having a hard time finding solid info on the topic. Obviously there are a million factors to this question like soild type, amt. of precip., etc etc.

as to the 60 sq ft for 6 chickens. thats equal to over 400 lbs of chicken manure per year in 60 sq ft......

 

[Judy]

I wish I could tell you, on the 87/acre -- I've had computer crashes and lost so many bookmarks.... And you are smart to not just believe me! It's only in my memory, and I make no guarantee of that.... Have you looked into the old chicken authors, like a century ago or so -- I'm not a good source for this at all, but we do have members here who could reply a lot more articulately than I on these things. There are some old threads, here, too.

The best I can do is suggest you check into Robert Plamondon, if you're not familiar already. He has a few books on Amazon. When I pulled one up there, or maybe pulled up his name, there were some other names off to the right, as well.

Another thought on the 6 chickens in 60 sq ft type scenario is, many or most people remove at least the night poop, and often much of the day poop as well, for compost or whatever. It would indeed get yucky if just left on the ground!

 

[jamband]

I see what your saying but even 6 chickens maxs out a 1/8 acre lot if 100% of the lot gets that manure shared. I just think that even 50% of that manure in that 60sq ft is way too much.

 

[Mrs. K]

Instead of looking at the numbers, because frankly girls and guys, the Big Boys in the production business pack chickens in much tighter conformations than we are talking, and enough chickens live and produce to make it profitable.

I think what you need to do is look at your flock, not your acreage. Is it stressed? Is their pecking, fighting going on, lots of squawking. When my flock is too big (as it is now,) the flock starts to stress and if you are truly looking at your birds and listening to what they are telling you, you will see. But you have to listen to the birds, and not what you want to hear, I see so many people just wishing that their birds would all be nice and get along. Ten to one, they are too crowded.

I caught on to this one time when a predator reduced my number from 16 birds down to 10. It was sad to lose those birds, but the change in the dynamics of my flock was dramatic. They stopped fighting, were more calm, and more content.

Right now, I have a roo, 6 layers, and a dozen chicks.... way over the 10-12 head that I need for my space. It is summer, and they free range most of the time, so I can cheat on the space issue, but as the chicks get bigger and take up more space, I can sense the stress rising. I have to cull down before winter, when the girls are cooped up for a much longer part of the day and night.

As for pasture chickens, that will strongly depend on your geography, rainfall, soil type, and temperatures. Land closer to the equator, has a considerable longer growing season, and forage regrows much faster than farther north. Rain and soil type, I am a cattle rancher, and we ranch on land that takes nearly 50 acres to run a cow/calf for a year, some years better rain, less acres, some years less rain, more acres. However, we have friends not very far away, that run cattle on about 10 acres per year. A huge differnce depending on the growing conditions, geography and type of plant life.

Even in the pasture set up, flocks tend to stay together, and you can watch their interactions. Paying attention to the amount of feed that you put out each day can also tell you about your flock, if in the evening, there is a great deal left, you are feeding too much, and they are meeting their needs on the pasture. If at the end of the day, the bowl is empty, you need to add additional feed. I do not feed 24/7 because I check this "indicator" daily as a gauge on how my flock is doing.

maybe a little more than 2 cents, haha

Mrs K

 

[J-Sanders]

I get the bird health part of the sq ft. But what I've seen for the 50/acre was on manure load I think. I dont see anyway you could feed 87 chickens off 1 acre of forage alone but that would be awesome. Do you happen to recall where you saw that? not because I dont believe you, just because I am having a hard time finding solid info on the topic. Obviously there are a million factors to this question like soild type, amt. of precip., etc etc.

as to the 60 sq ft for 6 chickens. thats equal to over 400 lbs of chicken manure per year in 60 sq ft......

I think a lot of those numbers you see is in the context of production poultry. It would entirely depend upon where your acre is and how much biodiversity there is there. To me there is no set rule only the rule of thumb.

Jim

 

[jamband]

Instead of looking at the numbers, because frankly girls and guys, the Big Boys in the production business pack chickens in much tighter conformations than we are talking, and enough chickens live and produce to make it profitable.

I think what you need to do is look at your flock, not your acreage. Is it stressed? Is their pecking, fighting going on, lots of squawking. When my flock is too big (as it is now,) the flock starts to stress and if you are truly looking at your birds and listening to what they are telling you, you will see. But you have to listen to the birds, and not what you want to hear, I see so many people just wishing that their birds would all be nice and get along. Ten to one, they are too crowded.

I caught on to this one time when a predator reduced my number from 16 birds down to 10. It was sad to lose those birds, but the change in the dynamics of my flock was dramatic. They stopped fighting, were more calm, and more content.

Right now, I have a roo, 6 layers, and a dozen chicks.... way over the 10-12 head that I need for my space. It is summer, and they free range most of the time, so I can cheat on the space issue, but as the chicks get bigger and take up more space, I can sense the stress rising. I have to cull down before winter, when the girls are cooped up for a much longer part of the day and night.

As for pasture chickens, that will strongly depend on your geography, rainfall, soil type, and temperatures. Land closer to the equator, has a considerable longer growing season, and forage regrows much faster than farther north. Rain and soil type, I am a cattle rancher, and we ranch on land that takes nearly 50 acres to run a cow/calf for a year, some years better rain, less acres, some years less rain, more acres. However, we have friends not very far away, that run cattle on about 10 acres per year. A huge differnce depending on the growing conditions, geography and type of plant life.

Even in the pasture set up, flocks tend to stay together, and you can watch their interactions. Paying attention to the amount of feed that you put out each day can also tell you about your flock, if in the evening, there is a great deal left, you are feeding too much, and they are meeting their needs on the pasture. If at the end of the day, the bowl is empty, you need to add additional feed. I do not feed 24/7 because I check this "indicator" daily as a gauge on how my flock is doing.

maybe a little more than 2 cents, haha

Mrs K

Right. there are soooooooo many variables to it and I know this is a chicken keeping forum so thats the main topic. My issue is can the ground, water, vegatation handle it? not the chickens. obviously medicated, vaccinated etc birds can live and produce in 18 sq in battery cages but also clear that the 40,000 sq ft chicken house with 25,000 chickens inside produce waaaay more manure than that land can handle.....the result is pollution of soil and water. we do not want to be perpetuating numbers that do that even on small scales.

Really 50 acres for one cow? doesnt seem worth it.

 

[jamband]

I think a lot of those numbers you see is in the context of production poultry. It would entirely depend upon where your acre is and how much biodiversity there is there. To me there is no set rule only the rule of thumb.

Jim

I know it will differ with variables and management styles etc but there also has to be a range those numbers will generally fall in. especially within a bioregion.

a general point I was trying to make is I think numbers like 10 sq ft in a static run cause ground and potentially water pollution even on small scales. Again I know this site is about chickens but we need to be responsibles stewards.