Discussion on Breeding up Hatchery Quality Birds.

[Kevin565]

we don't keep any birds inside past 3 days. By three days issues would have shown up and they are eating fine and ready to go out. As I said as long as they have a spot to get off wire they are happy to lounge in the sun beams and snuggle up under the lamps at night.
Goslings go out to brooder pens in our feed house at day 3 and are out on grass all day in playpens we set up.
With the raised pens make clean out as easy as possible. Large swinging doors that a wheel barrow fits under so you can use a garden hoe to scrape the inside clean. Roll away and dump for compost. A good hose out, rebed and everyone is good. Lids over the pools act a great table for waters to sit on until they are big enough for pools to open full time. Simple plywood or other flat item that covers the opening is all you need.

. That sounds so much more reasonable! Right now I've been brooding in several large totes and ferret cages. As we all know that lasts about 10 minutes

. Raising them on wire seems like it would be much easier to maintain as well as much more sanitary for the birds.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

They seem to feather quicker too being out, and are ready for pool time and graduate to juvenile yards easier. They are use to the dogs, use to the other animals and don't act as afraid once put on the ground.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Oh, and if we need a wind break, feed sacks staple to the frame easy peasy, coming down just as easily.

 

[Oregon Blues]

My first question is: do you want to take a backyard flock and turn it into a better backyard flock? Or do you want to raise SOP birds and get into showing? Because the hatchery quality birds are sometimes not even purebred. You can't get purebred show birds starting out with mutts. But you can certainly get much better mutts.

I can certainly understand getting attached to ducks and wanting to keep them. That's not hard to do.

This is how I would do it. I would buy a trio of the very best show quality birds I could find. I would love my pet ducks and eat all their eggs and only hatch the eggs from the show quality trio. If the pets go broody, then put the show bird eggs under them. That way you can end up with a quality flock by the end of the first year.

You will still have to cull the hatchlings, because not every duck with show parents turns out show quality.

To turn a pet flock into a better pet flock, but not worry about showing. I would remove all the drakes and replace them with a couple of SOP show quality drakes. Your next generation of hatchlings should be an improvement on your current pet ducks. Only use the hatchlings for breeding stock the next year and eat the eggs from your original ducks and don't hatch any. Repeat this generation after generation, and you can end up with some nice ducks.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

The above is what hubby is doing with his Khaki Campbell's. He has also brought in better outside stock and this next spring will selectively hatch.


My geese and SA ducks we try and be more criticale of and cull heavily. Was just sitting on the porch watching juveniles making note of things that might get a few more culled this fall.

 

[Oregon Blues]

Do you believe they should worry more about the type or color of the specimens?

Do you believe a good quality drake or hen is more beneficial to keep around?

What are some traits that would automatically knock out a specimen from your breeding program?

What stage in a breeding do you believe is the best time for mixing in better quality Breeding Stock with Hatchery Stock?

Also any other input or personal experience would greatly be appreciated.

To answer your question directly:

Color is a critical component to type in waterfowl, so you must worry about both.

A drake has much more influence because he will sire multiple hatchings from several different ducks. However, if you can get your hands on a super quality duck, you can manage your hatchings so her eggs are the ones you hatch for your next generation. A top quality duck is a real blessing to anyone who wants to produce top quality ducklings. However, I would purchase a quality drake to upgrade a pet flock, but would not purchase a quality duck and then breed her to a pet quality drake.

Automatic cull for me; Poor temperament. Any health issue. Even a hint of weak wing tendons (angel wing). Laying problems. Any deformity. The misfortune to be an excess male.

Add better bloodlines immediately. You can't start too soon. And cull, cull, cull.

Personal experience with breeding up waterfowl:

I have show quality Blue Swedish ducks., They are pretty decent, but could use some work. These are the best ducks I could find, so buying a better drake probably is not going to happen. The world is full of pet quality bib marked mutts and there are barely any show breeders of Swedish ducks. Stock simply does not exist. I will buy it if I find it, but so far, nothing.

I cull my birds and keep the best. I have forgiven some color faults. My birds are too narrow across the back, and my widest drake lacks the white wingtips. I want his broad back more than I want the white wingtips, so he stays and I hope he will broaden up my flock.

The rest of the birds all have their white wingtips, so I will hope there is no loss of that gene. I will cull to keep broader backed ducks with white wing tips.

It's a balancing act. If none of my birds had white wingtips except for one, who was too narrow in the body, I would keep him for his white wingtips and he would be used extensively white I got the correct wing color established. But again, I would be keeping the hatchlings with the broadest backs and also white wingtips.

Some faults are very difficult to get rid of. Mottled bibs is one of those in Swedish, so any bird with a mottled bib, or eye stripes, is out of the program. I can not afford to allow those genes to creep in. With those 2 issues, I don't have them and I don't care what great genes a bird has, I am not allowing those problems to get mixed into my gene pool.

I suggest that you do not concentrate on one trait at a time, but select the best over-all for each generation.

 

[Kevin565]

They seem to feather quicker too being out, and are ready for pool time and graduate to juvenile yards easier. They are use to the dogs, use to the other animals and don't act as afraid once put on the ground.

I've noticed that with the babies I let the moms hatch out as well. It's amazing how much mother nature can affect birds.

My first question is: do you want to take a backyard flock and turn it into a better backyard flock? Or do you want to raise SOP birds and get into showing? Because the hatchery quality birds are sometimes not even purebred. You can't get purebred show birds starting out with mutts. But you can certainly get much better mutts.

I can certainly understand getting attached to ducks and wanting to keep them. That's not hard to do.

This is how I would do it. I would buy a trio of the very best show quality birds I could find. I would love my pet ducks and eat all their eggs and only hatch the eggs from the show quality trio. If the pets go broody, then put the show bird eggs under them. That way you can end up with a quality flock by the end of the first year.

You will still have to cull the hatchlings, because not every duck with show parents turns out show quality.

To turn a pet flock into a better pet flock, but not worry about showing. I would remove all the drakes and replace them with a couple of SOP show quality drakes. Your next generation of hatchlings should be an improvement on your current pet ducks. Only use the hatchlings for breeding stock the next year and eat the eggs from your original ducks and don't hatch any. Repeat this generation after generation, and you can end up with some nice ducks.

You made some excellent points Oregon especially about mutts. Many hatcheries have birds that are so far off from the SOP it appears they have mixed heritage.I think many people just prefer better quality flocks without worrying about showing. For example Runners are a popular breed for eggs. Many people see pictures of them online and are sadly disappointed when they receive their birds from hatchery due to their poor stance. I would think aiming for a better stance would be a reachable goal for them.

 

[Kevin565]

Oregon I have a question involving color. I know white on the plumage of a Black bird like a Cayuga is a big thing in the showing world. Would a Drake with any white on his plumage in breeds like that be a automatic cull for you? Is that something to hard to breed out?
'

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Kevin, remember breeds like Cayuga often white out with age. So a 3 or year drake may not be as solid black as a juvenile/1 year old.

 

[Kevin565]

Kevin, remember breeds like Cayuga often white out with age. So a 3 or year drake may not be as solid black as a juvenile/1 year old.

Can they still be shown or will so many points be deducted it would be pointless to enter them?