Disscusion on RIR heartyness

[LittlePip21]

I'm starting a breeding program for RIR's in a couple of weeks and I have a trio of heritage birds I got from a breeder last year. rebrascora is right on the money about their description as opposed to production reds. The two pullets I have started laying late last fall and lay maybe three eggs a week compared to hatchery Barred Rocks and leghorns I have that lay twice that many. The SOP birds are a very dark mahogany color and easily twice the size of my hatchery birds. They're also very calm, gentle, and healthy. I'd guestimate if you got a couple of heritage birds from a good breeder your odds of getting one with health problems would be lower, and I'm pretty sure they'd lay for many more years than a hatchery bird, albeit at a slower rate.

Thanks for your input! I might try that if i decide to Increase my flock!

 

[ejcrist]

Yes! I have actually researched this and I definitely agree! when I said they were culled anyway (I knew they were culled at 2, but i wasn't sure if where you live they were culled later.) it may have sounded like I agreed with it, but I most assuredly don't, it makes me sick how the industry treats these animals, and how we can just ignore it because they are "food". I am pointing at myself as well, I cringe every time I pick something up in the isle and realize that I'm contributing in some way to the monster that is being covered up and pathologically ignored. I just don't know what to do, every time I see the huge mountain of egg cartons in the grocery store, I think about how each egg represents a day of misery for some poor hen

. Its just hard to know what to do, I've actually looked into raising the cockerels i get for meat, I'm just worried i'll end up with a bunch of roosters I cant cull because i got attached to them by handling them as chicks. That's a good point about the pullets, even when I think about it now, what happens to all those baby chicks at the feed store that were never bought? I'm always skeptical about products that promote animal well fare, because sometimes the stuff on there is just a twist of the words. for instance, I read on a cage free carton that the hens are on a "Vegetarian diet" which to me sounded like, "all we feed them is mush and we make it sound healthy". chickens are not herbivores, and it said nothing about the well roundedness of the diet. also, don't you think "cage free" just means a bunch of birds stuffed into a building anyway? its so hard to know what to do, do you have any suggestions on ways to not support the system? and about starting meat birds? thanks for your thoughts. Glad someone feels the same way!

Well, I guess my take on it is the current setup for factory farming is the result of (mostly) free-market forces; the consumers set the demand and the producers then meet that demand in the most efficient and cost effective way they can. Food crop farming is much the same way. Current practices aren't always the most sustainable but it's mostly the growers trying to meet the demand while still making a profit. For me personally, I just love raising chickens and selectively breeding birds to to get them as close to the standards set forth by the APA as I can. The original dual-purpose breeds were perfect for their intended purpose (eggs and meat), and I think it's a shame that there's not enough demand for that anymore since most producers have to specialize in order to be competitive. Just my opinion, but as the population has grown most people have gravitated to urban/suburban areas and have adapted to the ways of life in those environments, or in other words they've become very detached from the "generalist" lives people used to lead which required them to produce some or all of their own food, fix things themselves, etc. So nowadays when people see what it takes to produce the things they want, like fast-food, fully stocked grocery store shelves, etc., they don't much like it - it can be hard on the land, the animals, and also sometimes wasteful. I don't fault anyone for this since most people nowadays aren't exposed to agriculture like they used to be years ago. One of my nieces just yesterday asked me how can I eat any of my chickens, and how do I know they're not diseased or anything - she really did ask me that. So I'm currently in the process of explaining and showing her. Hopefully when we're done she'll understand our chicken diners that she enjoys are far, far better for her long-term health than the store-bought stuff, and they taste a lot better too.

Anyway I'm digressing way too much here, but I try to promote responsible bird-raising and vegetable crop growing by doing it, and also showing and telling anyone that seems interested. Strangely enough most everyone I've talked to about it has been extremely interested and a lot have even started their own vegetable gardens and/or raising chickens. Almost everyone admits to having learned a lot more about poultry raising than they ever wanted to know, so I guess that's a good thing. So I think that's the biggest thing a person can do to promote good practices. If most everyone that could raise birds raised at least some poultry you'd see factory farming ratchet downward and the people raising their own stuff would be a lot happier and healthier in my opinion. I don't think we'll ever see factory farming eliminated since there'll always be demand for it to some extent, but it would certainly be nice to see more people get back to their agricultural roots - I think they'd appreciate their meals better if they realized what all went into it, especially if they had to make it from start to finish themselves.

Regarding the labels they give to eggs such as "cage-free", etc., like you, I think they're very inaccurate. Those terms are defined by regulators so they don't mean much to me. I know in my home state of AZ I'm not allowed to use the words "fresh" or "local" on my egg cartons because I'm a small producer and not state/USDA inspected, and only if you are and you meet the criteria can you use those words. So yeah, I definitely agree with you on the labels.

As far as raising your cockerels for meat, that's SOP for me, but only if they won't be kept for breeding. I understand how you feel about culling them though - a lot of people feel the same way and that's totally fine in my book. Even though I've butchered quite a few of them I always have a certain appreciation for them and given the choice I'd rather do something else. My logic when it comes to non-breeding cockerels is that they're consuming feed and not producing anything in return (goods or services), so something has to give since I don't have the space or money to keep 'em all. They'll have a good life until that day comes, and even when it does it'll be quick and merciful, and then we can all have supper afterwards and everyone will happy, except probably the cockerel of course. That's just my opinion and obviously not for everyone. I say to think it over and do whatever works for you - no wrong decisions there.

If you get a chance you might want to go to a poultry show in your area when they come around. You'll see a lot of great examples of the breeds and have opportunities to talk to the breeders and judges. Personally I've learned far more talking to breeders than anywhere else. You'll also see the differences between hatchery birds and SOP birds - pretty big differences. I'm sure you'd enjoy it. Good luck.

 

[chippy99th]

I like the opinions on this thread. There are a lot of misleading terms in the egg and chicken industry -"cage free", "vegetarian diet" etc. sound nice unless you know about chickens and about the industry. Which most people do not.

And yeah, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen at feed stores. Some of them are fabulous and have really caring and knowledgeable staff..and then there's the ones where the ignorance and lack of compassion is just astounding.

I don't butcher my chickens but that's my own decision for just me and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. I do know how and help my neighbors, I just get too attached to my own. If I wasn't so soft, I would raise meat birds and butcher some of my roos. But you know, once you give them names...

 

[LittlePip21]

I like the opinions on this thread. There are a lot of misleading terms in the egg and chicken industry -"cage free", "vegetarian diet" etc. sound nice unless you know about chickens and about the industry. Which most people do not.

And yeah, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen at feed stores. Some of them are fabulous and have really caring and knowledgeable staff..and then there's the ones where the ignorance and lack of compassion is just astounding.

I don't butcher my chickens but that's my own decision for just me and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. I do know how and help my neighbors, I just get too attached to my own. If I wasn't so soft, I would raise meat birds and butcher some of my roos. But you know, once you give them names...

yeah,I agree, it's not that I'm afraid to do it, but once you get attached, the rest is history. I also like the opinions on this thread, its nice to know there are others that feel passionate about the same things I do!

 

[ejcrist]

I like the opinions on this thread. There are a lot of misleading terms in the egg and chicken industry -"cage free", "vegetarian diet" etc. sound nice unless you know about chickens and about the industry. Which most people do not.

And yeah, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen at feed stores. Some of them are fabulous and have really caring and knowledgeable staff..and then there's the ones where the ignorance and lack of compassion is just astounding.

I don't butcher my chickens but that's my own decision for just me and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. I do know how and help my neighbors, I just get too attached to my own. If I wasn't so soft, I would raise meat birds and butcher some of my roos. But you know, once you give them names...

yeah,I agree, it's not that I'm afraid to do it, but once you get attached, the rest is history. I also like the opinions on this thread, its nice to know there are others that feel passionate about the same things I do!

I agree on the attachment part. I'm like that with some of mine too. I have a Buff Orpington hen (Caroline) that thinks I'm her husband or something. She won't let the other Orpington hens anywhere near me and gets mad when I don't bring her treats. I've never seen a bird like that before but I don't think I could ever have her for diner.

Chippy you're not soft IMO, you just love your birds which is a good thing. I'm the same way about dogs. I think I balled more whenever I lost a dog than any relative that passed on. I just chalk it up to the way things are. The only thing that helps me with my chickens is that I try my best to keep in mind from the time I get them that I have them as livestock for breeding and eggs, and they won't be with me for more than maybe 5-7 years or so, and that helps a lot - keeping in mind their purpose. Also, by breeding them to the SOP I'm helping to conserve and promote them. Breeding requires culling but culling doesn't necessarily mean eating them - I give some away and sell some to others that want to raise them. If I can't do that, like with roosters since most people can't have them, I'll have them for dinner as a last resort. Like any asset though I treat them very well because they give back a lot more than most animals, and they give it most every day. Even though I didn't get them for pets, there's always a couple like Diana that won't stand for being considered livestock, and that's when I run into the attachment part.

LittlePip, you asked about meat birds earlier and I didn't answer your question about them. We raise Cornish Crosses a couple of times during the winter because it's too hot where I live to raise them during the summer months. They're not the most flavorful bird but they do grow quickly and are very tender if you want them for the grill - they're great for that. If you feed them at the right rate, unlimited for the first week and then morning and afternoon only (measured) for weeks two until done they'll stay healthy and turn out pretty good. Unlike the layers and SOP birds Cornish Crosses are kinda nasty, a lot of work to clean up after, and a lot easier to butcher as a result. Your workload will seem so much lighter after a good BBQ. We typically raise around 30 at a pop and I raise them in two pens with a good amount of space, but despite that I'll have to change the bedding about every three days or so from about the 3rd week on because they process food so quickly. I'm sure some people might get attached to them but I don't think I could even if I wanted to because they're eating machines - that's all they think about 24-7. If I had a spell while in the pen they'd probably eat me. So if you're thinking about giving them a try I think you'll do fine with them. I'd be very surprised if you got attached to them. I never heard of anyone that did.