Do ckickens and blue heelers mix?
- Thread starter hawk
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- Jul 14, 2009
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No, but they are supposed to nip or grip -- depending on the dog -- if the stock isn't moving the way the dog wants it to move. As someone else said, nipping a sheep, goat, or cow isn't the same as nipping poultry.
ive seen many herding dogs herd ducks and geese for competition.
Ive yet to get my hens. Very soon though. I have two corgis, my pembroke has more of herding gene than my cardigan. But the cardi is far more laid back about everything. Birds and squirrels included, so we shall see.......
Yes herding dogs might be frustrated when not allowed to just follow their instinct to chase, but thats part of being a good working dog, following direction as well.
Border Collies (don't know about other breeds) aren't trained or bred to chase....they are bred to move the sheep toward the handler or to a gate, not to nip or chase down or kill. The only time it's appropriate to nip or grip is when an animal...typically sheep or cattle are being defiant and not moving away when the dog "moves" them. In competition they will lose points if they nip for no reason. Why would historically these dogs be so popular on working farms where there were typically chickens also part of the farm, if they kill them?? Also most Border Collies get re-homed because people don't realize they NEED a job and if not given one, they will find their own. Now that said, I have two Border Collies and one I wouldn't trust with chickens...or ducks....but she also shows little herding instinct. The other is great with anything and has herded a whole flock of wild turkeys without barely causing them to run. The best trained Border Collies are supposed to move the group WITHOUT alarming them.
I apologize that this is about BC's when the OP was about Heelers but don't know how much is typical of any herding breed.
No, but they are supposed to nip or grip -- depending on the dog -- if the stock isn't moving the way the dog wants it to move. As someone else said, nipping a sheep, goat, or cow isn't the same as nipping poultry.
I do find it appropriate to have a herding breed on a farm, where there would likely be free ranging chickens, perhaps ducks, definitely goats, sheep, cows, etc.
Goats, sheep, cows...yes. That's what the dog was bred to herd.
They weren't bred to herd poultry, though.
Goats, sheep, cows...yes. That's what the dog was bred to herd.
They weren't bred to herd poultry, though.
ive seen many herding dogs herd ducks and geese for competition.
Ive yet to get my hens. Very soon though. I have two corgis, my pembroke has more of herding gene than my cardigan. But the cardi is far more laid back about everything. Birds and squirrels included, so we shall see.......
Yes herding dogs might be frustrated when not allowed to just follow their instinct to chase, but thats part of being a good working dog, following direction as well.
Border Collies (don't know about other breeds) aren't trained or bred to chase....they are bred to move the sheep toward the handler or to a gate, not to nip or chase down or kill. The only time it's appropriate to nip or grip is when an animal...typically sheep or cattle are being defiant and not moving away when the dog "moves" them. In competition they will lose points if they nip for no reason. Why would historically these dogs be so popular on working farms where there were typically chickens also part of the farm, if they kill them?? Also most Border Collies get re-homed because people don't realize they NEED a job and if not given one, they will find their own. Now that said, I have two Border Collies and one I wouldn't trust with chickens...or ducks....but she also shows little herding instinct. The other is great with anything and has herded a whole flock of wild turkeys without barely causing them to run. The best trained Border Collies are supposed to move the group WITHOUT alarming them.
I apologize that this is about BC's when the OP was about Heelers but don't know how much is typical of any herding breed.
Nice clips. That second dog just needs to be trained to follow up by closing and latching the gate.
I suppose we best qualify the difference between a well trained and supervised dog; and just a family pet of a breed that has a disposition to chase and move animals.
Same with hunting breeds. Some will be fine with chickens with training and supervision, but may have a strong instinct to hunt the birds as well. A trained bird dog has learned restraint to find birds, but not retrieve until the proper cue. Untrained...
We ran into that with redbone hounds. They were fine with our chickens but wreaked havoc on the cats. We weren't willing to keep either the dogs or cats contained to the degree it would've taken so found good homes for the dogs and went with different breeds thereafter.
I suppose we best qualify the difference between a well trained and supervised dog; and just a family pet of a breed that has a disposition to chase and move animals.
Same with hunting breeds. Some will be fine with chickens with training and supervision, but may have a strong instinct to hunt the birds as well. A trained bird dog has learned restraint to find birds, but not retrieve until the proper cue. Untrained...
We ran into that with redbone hounds. They were fine with our chickens but wreaked havoc on the cats. We weren't willing to keep either the dogs or cats contained to the degree it would've taken so found good homes for the dogs and went with different breeds thereafter.
when I said chase, I ment it in the pursue sorta of way, as in herding. But most herding dogs are the same in their drive, to move from point A to point B.
My mom had a border collie,and they called her their "special needs" dogs, they underestimated the fact that excersize alone wasn't enough to stimulate her mind. and she got into all sorts of trouble if not "worked", she lived on a bible college campus in Africa and would her the students, the local studetns were terrified of this "strange" dog. The rehomed her with folks who gave her a real job on a daily basis
my corgis like to herd the other dogs at teh dog park
My mom had a border collie,and they called her their "special needs" dogs, they underestimated the fact that excersize alone wasn't enough to stimulate her mind. and she got into all sorts of trouble if not "worked", she lived on a bible college campus in Africa and would her the students, the local studetns were terrified of this "strange" dog. The rehomed her with folks who gave her a real job on a daily basis
my corgis like to herd the other dogs at teh dog park
- Jun 14, 2009
- 1,735
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chickens and blue heelers mix?
Well I guess it depends on whether you are asking the chicken or the heeler? Blue heelers enjoy themselves, chickens maybe not so much.
By and large I trust no dog around my chickens. Not saying that their are no well trained dogs, I unfortunately have not had the pleasure of owning one. I like my chickens live and my dogs on the outside of the chicken run.
Well I guess it depends on whether you are asking the chicken or the heeler? Blue heelers enjoy themselves, chickens maybe not so much.
By and large I trust no dog around my chickens. Not saying that their are no well trained dogs, I unfortunately have not had the pleasure of owning one. I like my chickens live and my dogs on the outside of the chicken run.
Well now, This sounds interesting!
I guess I will throw my support behind the "proper training" crowd!lol!
We have a blue heeler-Aussie sheperd mix, a beagle and a friends Pointer plus a cat that has killed grown possums in the past. The breakdown is this....
Heeler....the chickens treat him like a doormat. He lays in the sun,daydreaming I suppose, and the chickens actually walk over him. Not so much as a eye twitch.
Beagle...sometimes will chase a chicken but refuses to touch one...runs away if a chicken walks toward her.
Pointer....Will run a chicken down and kill it. Not point it, kill it !
An old school bird hunter would shoot such a dog our kinder gentler society has even reached into hunting!
The CAT.....The chickens tend to pester the cat a great deal....they step on him, peck him, take his food etc. The only reaction from the cat is a very disgusted look.
Temperment and training!
Edited for REALLY bad spelling!
I guess I will throw my support behind the "proper training" crowd!lol!
We have a blue heeler-Aussie sheperd mix, a beagle and a friends Pointer plus a cat that has killed grown possums in the past. The breakdown is this....
Heeler....the chickens treat him like a doormat. He lays in the sun,daydreaming I suppose, and the chickens actually walk over him. Not so much as a eye twitch.
Beagle...sometimes will chase a chicken but refuses to touch one...runs away if a chicken walks toward her.
Pointer....Will run a chicken down and kill it. Not point it, kill it !
An old school bird hunter would shoot such a dog our kinder gentler society has even reached into hunting!
The CAT.....The chickens tend to pester the cat a great deal....they step on him, peck him, take his food etc. The only reaction from the cat is a very disgusted look.
Temperment and training!
Edited for REALLY bad spelling!
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I have to agree- training is everything. I've had my blue heeler/ beagle mix for 12 years, she's never been around any other animal except my other dogs. We got chickens 2mos ago, and I am keeping her and my other dog - a catahoula (amazingly, blueheelr's dog looks like both my dogs merged together) - compelety separated. They are curious about the chicks, and once when my back was turned they both took off after the chicks. No damage done b/c they stopped when we gave the command. I would NEVER allow either of my dogs to 'free range' with the chicks - think it is inviting trouble. Herders and sight hounds are bad combos with chicks - but the dogs came first, so we just keep 'em separated.
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I was just curious as to whether or not your dogs showed a strong prey drive and a tendency to 'eye' things before you trained them not to chase poultry..
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I think that's probably because we're not understanding each other..
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Depends on the dog. For instance, LGDs are notoriously 'stubborn' and 'hard headed,' which can make them challenging to train for obedience. They're stubborn for a reason, though...they need to be able to think for themselves because they need to be able to work by themselves.
Afterall, a guard dog that won't go after predators unless directed to do so is worthless.
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See, here's where I think we're misunderstanding one another.
I'm not trying to give herding breeds a bad name -- I love herding breeds. We have three, and they're fantastic dogs. I wouldn't give any one of them up for the world...if they our killed chickens, I'd be mad, but I wouldn't trade any number of chickens for my dogs.
And, for the record...at no point did I say anything about any dog killing children. Not sure where that came from...
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IMHO, training (or, correction at least) may be important, but it's not everything. To say that training is everything is to say that breeding means nothing...
Thing is, I can disprove that pretty easily by noting that you could perhaps train a Yorkie to be just as alert and have a desire to be just as protective as a true LGD, but when a coyote comes walking up...it's dead. No matter how much training you put into it -- DEAD.
You can't train a small dog to be bigger...only breeding does that.
Breed matters.
I was just curious as to whether or not your dogs showed a strong prey drive and a tendency to 'eye' things before you trained them not to chase poultry..
Quote:
I think that's probably because we're not understanding each other..
Quote:
Depends on the dog. For instance, LGDs are notoriously 'stubborn' and 'hard headed,' which can make them challenging to train for obedience. They're stubborn for a reason, though...they need to be able to think for themselves because they need to be able to work by themselves.
Afterall, a guard dog that won't go after predators unless directed to do so is worthless.
Quote:
See, here's where I think we're misunderstanding one another.
I'm not trying to give herding breeds a bad name -- I love herding breeds. We have three, and they're fantastic dogs. I wouldn't give any one of them up for the world...if they our killed chickens, I'd be mad, but I wouldn't trade any number of chickens for my dogs.
And, for the record...at no point did I say anything about any dog killing children. Not sure where that came from...
Quote:
IMHO, training (or, correction at least) may be important, but it's not everything. To say that training is everything is to say that breeding means nothing...
Thing is, I can disprove that pretty easily by noting that you could perhaps train a Yorkie to be just as alert and have a desire to be just as protective as a true LGD, but when a coyote comes walking up...it's dead. No matter how much training you put into it -- DEAD.
You can't train a small dog to be bigger...only breeding does that.
Breed matters.
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Both my dogs are border collies. Actually, one is a mix and BOTH are great dogs and do not harm my chickens. I have trained them that chickens are 'friends, not food'. It was not hard to train them either. They respect that I am the alpha.
I have only had my chickens for less than two months and I totally could put my "herding" dogs into the chicken run and coop and trust 110% that NOT ONE chicken would be harmed. Ever!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog8.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog6.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog3.jpghttps://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog2.jpg
Notice that the chickens are calm and the dogs are calm. Like I said...training. And I don't spend lots of time training. I can tell my dogs "No." And they just don't.
Both my dogs are border collies. Actually, one is a mix and BOTH are great dogs and do not harm my chickens. I have trained them that chickens are 'friends, not food'. It was not hard to train them either. They respect that I am the alpha.
I have only had my chickens for less than two months and I totally could put my "herding" dogs into the chicken run and coop and trust 110% that NOT ONE chicken would be harmed. Ever!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog8.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog6.jpg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog3.jpghttps://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/36910_dog2.jpg
Notice that the chickens are calm and the dogs are calm. Like I said...training. And I don't spend lots of time training. I can tell my dogs "No." And they just don't.
First you say...
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Then you say...
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...and totally contradict yourself.
Bottom line, yes -- they are bred to nip or grip when stock isn't doing what the dog wants. You said as much yourself..
Something that needs to be understood is that the stock needs training just as much as the dogs need training, in order for things to work out right..
Post all the videos you want of dogs working poultry...they're not my poultry. Put my poultry out there to be worked for the first time and they're not likely to do what the dog wants done. Combine first-time poultry with a dog that's not had any formal training to herd and feathers are going to fly.
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I dunno what your idea of a 'historic working farm' is, but generally speaking, herding dogs weren't left to run loose between jobs.
Any herdsman worth his salt would know to keep his dogs housed and well away from the stock when he's not in direct supervision.
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Then you say...
Quote:
...and totally contradict yourself.
Bottom line, yes -- they are bred to nip or grip when stock isn't doing what the dog wants. You said as much yourself..
Something that needs to be understood is that the stock needs training just as much as the dogs need training, in order for things to work out right..
Post all the videos you want of dogs working poultry...they're not my poultry. Put my poultry out there to be worked for the first time and they're not likely to do what the dog wants done. Combine first-time poultry with a dog that's not had any formal training to herd and feathers are going to fly.
Quote:
I dunno what your idea of a 'historic working farm' is, but generally speaking, herding dogs weren't left to run loose between jobs.
Any herdsman worth his salt would know to keep his dogs housed and well away from the stock when he's not in direct supervision.
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