Do I have onagadoris?

[chickenlover54]

You will have to wait longer and see if he molts

 

[SilverPhoenix]

Despite being a fan of phoenixes, I must admit I don't know enough about the difference between phoenix and onagadori to say whether he's one or the other.

Regardless of what he is ultimately, that is one GORGEOUS bird.

Lucky you!

 

[Henferno]

W0w look at that tail! What a beauty. Looks a lot like an Onagadori to me, but hey, I'm no expert...
Dang, go get that guy's phone number. I want one!

Hahaha...

 

[IndianaGardener]

You have a couple of nice Phoenix. Cy's birds are Phoenix. True, they do have Onagadori in them from the 1940s, but German Phoenix and other breeds have been added in by Cy over the years.

A long-tail bird that molts every two years or less is a Phoenix. They are a standardized breed that is a blend of sometimes Onagadori and Totenko (if bbred). A small amount of Onagadori blended in does not make a bird an Onagadori, because that by definition is what a Phoenix is; a long-tail bird with a small percentage of Onagadori. So those who say the birds are Phoenix with Onagadori added in are just stating the obvious.

Phoenix and Onagadori are both great breeds, but each is very different from the other. Phoenix are typically more streamlined in body with slightly more coarse feathers. They also molt their tail and / or saddles at least once every two years.

Onagadori are heavier in body, slightly more cobby so to speak, and have very super soft feathers (almost hackle-like over the entire body). The tail and saddle feathers must not molt for at least three to four years. Not only must they not molt during that time, they must remain growing.

The development of long-tails goes as follows:
- jungle fowl hybrids from Java to China
- jungle fowl hybrids exported to China via old trade rout
- birds refined into temple birds in China, become the ancestors to the Shokoku
- ancestors of the Shokoku exported to Japan during the 7th through 9th centuries AD
- further refined and blended with Totenko
- Shokoku and Totenko crossed, hybrid offspring refined as Onagadori
- Onagadori and Totenko exported to Europe at the end of WWII
- Onagadori and Totenko blended with leghorn and game breed, standardized as Phoenix
- Phoenix imported into the US
- male Onagadori from the world's fair blended back in
- offspring bred back to German Phoenix again, with Dutch Bantam and more game added in
- and thus we have our Phoenix, a nice long-tail breed that is suited to more breeders than are the Onagadori.

There are also no slate legs on Japan. So that is another big tip off.

So you have some Hyde line Phoenix there to be proud of.

David

 

[greathorse]

Very nice informative post. It could all be a bunch of hooey for all I know (which is nothing) but it sure sounds like you know what your are talking about. It is great to get high quality information like this.

Good job

 

[kbgh]

We spent several hours with Cy this past Saturday, and I see absolutely NO reason to doubt Cy when he says his birds are truly Onagadoris. The birds he has isolated have gorgeous tails, and he told us that his birds molt every 3 to 4 years, and all references to the Onagadoris breed state they molt every 3-4 years. I've included a few pics taken Sept 25, 2010. Look at the tails.

Cy with one of his babies

I'm 6' tall now look at the tail feathers

The last 2 are of a bird that Cy had serveral. When he died of natural causes, Cy's family had it stuffed for him. Over an 8' tails.

Hope this helps clear a few misconceptions up.

Kerry & Barb

 

[Kelpie]

Cy's birds are truly stunning! You're so lucky to have seen them in person. Does he keep them in tombuku (sp?) to get those tails? Thanks for sharing!

 

[kbgh]

Yes he does. Not all just a few to get the great tails.

My wife and I are good friends of his. He hugs her every time she sees him.

We have offspring of his BB Reds. Barb, my other half, helped him out a couple of years ago by hatching some eggs for him, which he was using to develop a strain of blues. He gave us the original F1 generation blues and also some young F2 birds. These will become a breeding project for us this fall as we are already getting eggs and again in the spring. Cy is going visit us and help us to develop these biirds. We'll post pics soon under a new thread.

Kerry & Barb

 

[IndianaGardener]

Cy has great birds. Some of the best in the US in fact. I've spoken with him numerous times. He does not use tomebako. I have asked him directly. If people really realized what an Onagadori is, the birds in those photos wouldn't even be mistaken for them for a second. They are not completely in blood-feather. They have terminal down on the lesser sickles and coverts, showing that they are not still growing. Four years of growth would be a 12 Ft tail and 4 Ft saddles. Also, the tails do not have at least ten long feathers. They have a few long ones and the rest are half the length. A 6 Ft tail is still a Phoenix, what a Phoenix is supposed to be; not hatchery stock Leghorn-type birds they sell as Phoenix. Even a tail over 8 Ft with 12 to 18 inch saddles is not an Onagadori.

An Onagadori is much more than four long coverts and a few long saddles. There are at least five distinct things these birds lack to be Onagadori.

Great birds, anyone would be lucky to have his line. But they are great Phoenix, not Onagadori.


David

 

[GypsyChic]

Quote:
Will you be offering any eggs out of your birds? I don't know Cy personally but have heard a lot of very nice things about him, and his stock. I would love to add some new lines to my current program, if it were ever possible to do so.

Misty