do I need to give niacin to my ducklings if they eat flock raiser?

[duckluck]

Quote:
I sure would, as B vitamins are water soluable and not as likely to overdose as fat soluables. I order my brewer's yeast powder from KV Health. They have a very pure, non-bitter powder.

It's amazing how much feed you can look at and not find out exactly how much species-specific or age-specific nutrients there are in it. Just try getting good information about duck nutrition, it's really hard. Species-specific books are about as good as you can do unless you know someone who is a very successful breeder.

 

[10ducks]

I know it's confusing when someone says "mine had leg problems on Flock Raiser" but I think that you are VERY safe following the advice of Holderread (the foremost authority on waterfowl) and large-scale producers who use Flock Raiser. There are lots of variables that can cause leg problems that can wrongly be attributed to not enough niacin, but you gotta go with the numbers--hundreds of thousands of ducklings doing fine on Flock Raiser--and the experience and knowledge of experts, and the scientific method of controlled experiments.

 

[duckluck]

I have to say that I think some consideration should be given to breed...some may do better than others with more B vitamins than the "average". Personally I think the more fragile breeds, such as Calls though there may be other bantam breeds too, will need extra considerations to do well. I don't know how many people out there are hatching them by the thousands, if any, and so they may be outside the status quo. I know it's hard enough for the people I have met to be able to say they are hatching them in any amount of hundreds. I err on the side of using B vitamins, myself.

 

[spring peeper]

Hello, I am new to BYC and this is my very first post! I've been interested in ducks since the 1950s, when I was a student at Cornell and worked at the Duck Research Laboratory (http://www.duckhealth.com/ducklab.html) on Long Island for several summers. We did research on duck nutrition, some of which was sponsored by feed companies, including Purina. (I should mention that I was merely a lowly student intern, not one of the professors or scientists, but I later became a veterinarian, and I remember the basic science reasonably well.) We did raise thousands of ducklings under controlled conditions. The level of niacin required for healthy ducklings had already been established, and was not the focus of our research. However, we were always careful to allow the experimental ducks to eat ONLY their prepared rations. They were not allowed to free range on pasture, nor were they given treats of any kind.

If one were to raise ducklings under similar conditions, it is highly unlikely that one would have trouble: the niacin level in Purina's Flock Raiser or Dumor's Poultry Grower/Finisher and other feeds specifically formulated for waterfowl or both waterfowl and poultry is adequate. However, most hobbyists (including myself, certainly) do not want to raise ducklings under such conditions. And that is where we may run into problems. Generally speaking, foods that are high in protein are high in niacin. So if a duckling being fed a ration such as Flock Raiser is also fed high-protein supplements or is allowed to free-range and is able to find high-protein forage, it will continue to get plenty of niacin in its overall diet. Examples of this would include feeding cat food, hard-boiled eggs, or fish meal, or forage that includes bugs, worms, slugs, tadpoles and snails. If a duckling on the same ration is fed or finds only low-protein "extras" such as greens, corn, peas, or bread, the duckling may end up with an overall niacin deficiency. (Of course, this will be true only if the low-protein additions make up a significant portion of the diet.) I am not suggesting that greens, corn, peas or other vegetables are bad for ducklings; quite the opposite, I feed all of them, in as much variety as I can find. But my ducklings are given high-protein supplements as well.

Two quick examples:
Duckling number 1 lives with a suburban family. It gets Flock Raiser every day. It also gets to free-range on the short-mown all-grass lawn, where it may find a few bugs or worms, but mostly eats grass and a few weeds. The duckling is fed fresh peas every night, and it is hard to stop at only a few because it loves them so much! It also really likes cracked corn, so it gets a handful of that, or perhaps two handfuls. And the kids slip the duckling bits of bread and cracker and cereal frequently. This duckling could quite easily develop problems from niacin deficiency.

Duckling number 2 lives on a small farm. It also gets Flock Raiser every day. It free-ranges in a varied environment where it can find a wide variety of grasses and weeds, slugs in the garden, worms and bugs under dead leaves, and mosquito larvae and tadpoles along the edge of a pond. It gets some green peas and leftover salad greens nightly, but is never fed bread or whole grains. This duckling has plenty of niacin in its diet and is likely doing very well.

My conclusion: Confidently feed Flock Raiser (or similar) commercial feed if that is the sole ration, or the large majority of what your ducklings eat. Consider supplemental niacin if your ducklings get a lot of low-protein extras.

I hope I haven't adopted too much of a didactic tone. I am far from an expert on ducks, although I do have a good basic grounding in animal nutrition. It has been a good many years since I have actually raised or cared for anything except small domestic pets. I am happily entering retirement and am raising my first flock of geese and ducks as well as some chickens and turkeys, and I am sure that I will have plenty of questions for the forum. I have already spent several weeks reading posts and have learned so much, including, I hope, how to get my ducklings to come in at night when they start to free-range!

 

[Amiga]

Hey, spring peeper,

You speak my language. I had begun to see a variety of experience with Flock Raiser, ducklings, and niacin deficiency symptoms (since we don't get to take blood tests, we can only go with our hunches).

The other variables certainly could explain why the difference in experience.

Was there ever any research in genetic predisposition to niacin uptake problems, making a duckling effectively more susceptible to niacin deficiency?

 

[10ducks]

Spring Peeper,

Thanks for your input. The high-protein = higher niacin, low-protein = lower niacin categorization is helpful in trying to think about this subject and all the different experiences. I drove by the Cornell duck research place last summer when I was on Long Island. I tried to get an impromptu tour, but they couldn't allow it, because they are very concerned about bio-security, which makes sense. I saw some ducks outside in pastures, but also a lot of window-less pole barns. The folks in the office there were very nice and I picked up some good articles.

Do you still know anyone from the duck research station? I wonder if there is someone from there who would be willing to join BYC and be an advisor of sorts. Although I suppose there might be worries about liability issues. I know that as a (human) doctor, I have to be very cautious about giving medical advice on-line.

Welcome again to BYC!

 

[Brickman House]

Well, I'm just a single data point, but I'm going through this right now. I have a flock of 9 three week old ducklings who have NEVER had anything other than Flock Raiser. No treats, nothing. All were home hatched, and were healthy, sturdy, clean hatches.

Now I have two with wry neck, and two with leg problems. The ones with wry neck are responding well to 400 IU of Vitamin E twice a day. I'm also adding Niacin to the whole flock's waterers, and have twice injected .5 cc's of B complex IM.

I won't be using Flock Raiser again, and for anyone that does, I would absolutely recommend extra vitamins.

 

[redhen]

is it possible to give them too much niacin?? Can they overdose or get sick from too much? I dont know how much to be giving my ducklings....

 

[Amiga]

redhen,

You can give ducklings too much niacin, but I don't know what the toxicity level is. For ducklings with niacin deficiency, Storey's Guide recommends 100 to 150 mg of niacin per gallon of water their first 8 weeks. That's about what I know.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Thanks..i put the brewers yeast in their feed... (a couple times a day....a good sized scoop of it..)
I think we are giving them too much. I'll have to cut back on it....