Do not turn eggs??? What do you think???

[hart31]

This is an interesting thread with many appareantly valid assumptions on both sides of the issue.

I agree that the hormone treatments could certainly affect the ratio of birds with hen or cock characteristics without changing the actual genetics. The earlier the stage of development at which the embryos were subjected to treatment the more complete the outward physical characteristics.

This is commonly seen in other species (humans). Men with prostate cancer are sometimes treated with estrogen and have resulting breast development.

I was also wondering if a slight temperature difference upward or downward might affect the percentage of pullets to cockerals based on embryo survival. I suspect that it might but probably at susch a low percentage as to be negligible.

Another question that I have is: when does fertilization actually take place?
Bovine semen has been successfully sexed through centrifuging to separate by weight. Sperm with an X chromosome is heavier than sperm with Y chromosomes. It is not perfect and has not been developed to the point of being commercially effective but it does work.

I suspect that a similar technique could be used for chickens and turkeys which are artificially insemenated. It is not something I am personally interested in, just broadening the discussion.

 

[hencackle]

That's an interesting article (and discussion), thanks for posting that!

Silkiechicken asked: Isn't there a type of fish that can change their gender if the population isn't in the right balance and even produce fertile offspring? And that they can do this post maturation?

If I remember correctly, Wrasse fishes can.​

 

[silkiechicken]

Fertilization takes place in the hen as the yolk is maturing and before it gets coated up in albumen. They probably can separate male vs female sperm, I've heard of that being done on the human front, for parents using IF that want either a son or daughter! One reason it may not be done with most chickens is because they are "cheap" enough to just discard males, rather than collect sperm, separate it, and then artificially inseminate all the hens. I thought only the bb white/bronze were artificially inseminated as the parent strains of cornish x's could mate? For a few bucks a chick, might be hard to get funding for that type of work if it only applies to turkeys, while for a larger animal, worth potentially a thousand each, funding for that kind of work may be easier to come by.

I still stick with egg turning when possible as I wouldn't want to risk the chicks getting stuck, as they can be stuck so bad I break them when I pull them off the membrane at 60 hours of incubation. I kick myself when I forget to turn on the turner as it can put me back a whole week. Usually though, by just flipping all the eggs over the embryo can be unstuck before opened up.

I think there may have been some studies on temperature effects on male vs female survival, but I don't remember the results of it. I have a hunch it wasn't significant enough for me to remember though.

 

[quillizmightier]

I found this interesting since when I was a kid and hatched eggs for the science fair I did not turn them at all. We only put 3 eggs in and all three hatched. Not a good sample scientifically but, there you go.

 

[Mrs MIA]

Very interesting... however, I (being obsessed with all things chicken) have watched (via surveillance camera) my setting hens, and they do indeed "turn" the eggs. Whenever they get back on the nest, they go through a little process of adjusting the eggs to get them back under her without lumps, and she just kind of pulls them towards her, rolling them in the process. Granted, she doesn't do it every 4-5 hours like an automatic turner, but they DO get moved around. And when the nest gets too icky, she's been known to roll the eggs to another corner of the brooder and make a new nest.
I think that the only animals that don't turn their eggs are the birds/reptiles that bury their eggs in the sand and leave them.

Just my thoughts...

 

[hensdeliverthegoods]

Mrs. AK-Bird-Brain :

Very interesting... however, I (being obsessed with all things chicken) have watched (via surveillance camera) my setting hens, and they do indeed "turn" the eggs. Whenever they get back on the nest, they go through a little process of adjusting the eggs to get them back under her without lumps, and she just kind of pulls them towards her, rolling them in the process. Granted, she doesn't do it every 4-5 hours like an automatic turner, but they DO get moved around. And when the nest gets too icky, she's been known to roll the eggs to another corner of the brooder and make a new nest.
I think that the only animals that don't turn their eggs are the birds/reptiles that bury their eggs in the sand and leave them.

Just my thoughts...

Oooo....bet that was fascinating to watch! Don't suppose you recorded any of that to share?

 

[Mrs MIA]

Quote:
I'm sorry! I got software to record to the computer, but never could get it to work. It's kind of a "real-time" thing only. But it was nice to be able to keep an eye on the chicks and momma without actually going in and bothering them.

 

[crazyfowllady]

What a fasinating topic...I will try not turning some of my eggs this summer. If it works well, then imagine all the money saved in turners! (not to mention all the extra plug in sockets I need right now!LOL) I am curious about the first few days though, would like to see some more info on that or I will turn during that time.

Also, I've recently read an article (post?) on the web, maybe the coop, that says the hen determines the sex, not the rooster. That was an interesting fact, that birds are so different from mammals. I'll try to find and post that article. It had to do with some of the ways to create a sex link chick. If true, than all sperm are the same!

Another side, I had a running hot incubator a couple of winters ago, and my hatch rate was horrible. I had at least four sets of eggs to ruin but the few that did survive were almost all males (almost 4 to 1). I think they may be just a little bit more heat tolerant than the females, but it didn't change there sex!

 

[conny63malies]

Viewing it from the reptile stand point is interesting. You cant turn them it would kill them. think about gator eggs they spend weeks buried in dirt without moving them.
Not sure about gators and ttemperature based sex thingy.. but it works with turtles (not 100% though) one would have to use two identical bators and eggs from the same farm and run a test . Turn one batch and keep the other still.
From what i remember the only thing i saw a hen do is arrange them a bit to get comfy on them.

 

[conny63malies]

Mrs. AK-Bird-Brain :

.
I think that the only animals that don't turn their eggs are the birds/reptiles that bury their eggs in the sand and leave them.

Just my thoughts...

depends on the reptile ball pythons will coil them self around their eggs after laying to keep them warm. and then good luck getting them with out getting your finger bitten.... other snakes(boas ) are liver bearers, they have eggs that hatch internally and then the babies will be born alive.
even gators stick around and care after the hatch for their youngs. Only turtles and tortoises(from what i remember) will lay and leave.
Oh and i would kill or hurt somebody i f i catch them turning my ball python eggs. Depending on the snake on egg can be worth thousands of $$$$​