Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[PotterWatch]

I always spay or neuter as I am not a breeder and do not need or care to have intact dogs and I feel it would be too great of a risk that my dogs would add to the population at some point if they managed to get off my property (it has happened a couple times in the last couple years). I don't care for the practice of neutering at a very young age, however. We have a dog we adopted from a shelter who was neutered at 9wks old. I feel like this is far too young and wish the shelter had given us the option of paying a deposit that we would then have gotten back after we showed proof that we had him neutered at a more acceptable age.

 

[Haviris]

I spay and neuter, I think dogs (and cats) are healthier and happier when fixed. My male dane was not fixed til he was over 2 and the difference in him after was amazing! I had a neighbor w/ several intact female dogs, he never tried to get to any of them, but boy was it not fun when they came in heat, poor boy.

I have one female dog I kept intact for a few years, she was a show prospect, but live happened and I didn't end up showing her. She was pretty good the first time or so she came in heat, but after that she drove me crazy, and worse the doxie trying to break in. I finally had enough.

I think it's very stressful for the dog to have the drive to breed and not be able to, they are much better off fixed. And yes I think some behavioral problems are caused or atleast made worse by the animal being intact. But fixing them after the fact is probably not going to help much.

 

[gritsar]

KiKi, our siamese, came from the shelter spayed. In fact I picked her up as soon as she came out of surgery. Had she not been spayed, I would have had it done asap anyhow. A siamese in heat is a miserable thing.
Kitty was spayed at 6 months, because she was originally a barn cat and I didn't want to add to the overpopulation of stray cats around here.
If I was the sole owner of Jax and Kane, our german shepherds, I would probably have them neutered at two years old. Not before! because I truly believe they have much to benefit from their male hormones while they are growing.
However, DH is part owner of the two and he has a say too. He is dead set against having them altered. It's a man thing in part, but also stems from the fact that he grew up with intact male dogs, they never had a problem and it's all he's ever known.
We live in on an isolated farm. All of neighbors have male dogs. I can't think of a single farm around here that has a female.
At any rate, we have a fenced yard and our dogs are only allowed out on a leash; or when off leash in the yard, are closely supervised.
So, the cats are spayed and the dogs probably never will be. I doubt we'll ever breed them, even though both boys have the pedigree backing to do so. I think if the breeder wanted to use one of the boys - they are particularly interested in Kane - I might consider it.
I'm pretty tired of responsible pet owners taking flak for not spaying or neutering when it's the idiotic NON-responsible pet owners that share a hefty part of the blame.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Thank you to everone who's participated on this thread! All great responses so far. The cat responses have been great too. Personally all my cats are spayed/neutered because A) all my cats are indoor/outdoor, B) I don't like my cats coming home in bad shape because of fighting/having a ton of kittens that I have to deal with finding homes for.

I didn't start this thread to be a platform for my own opinions, however, I will respond some.

I don't harbor anything against people who spay or neuter, as I said I do spay/neuter under the "right" circumstances. I still hold my opinion that behavior issues are all about 1) base temperament of the dog (meaning the dog was born with certain genetic tendencies toward some behaviors and 2) owners not taking enough responsibility for the dog/dogs they have, and 3) owners opting to manage a dogs behavior and life instead of actually training it.

IMO hormones are not the cause of a behavior merely something that exaggerates the behavior (of course Im not talking about breeding there)....however as I said in my first post there are exceptions to this.

This has been such an informative and interesting discussion. I have really enjoyed reading it.

 

[ajablu]

I have to go against what is politically correct here and agree with rebelcowboysnb . I do not believe in spaying or neutering as a convenience for people. I do it if it is medically necessary. Nature made things the way they are for a reason. While touting all the benefits no one talks about new research showing it may not be the best thing for the dogs or cats. Current reseach shows aggression may actually increase in spayed and neutered dogs and more females than we want to know about have incontinence issues and live on medication or are given up or euthanized after a healthy girl gets spayed and can no longer hold her urine. I have talked to many owners of females left incontinent and they can not deal with it. I have known many people whose neutered male lost the personality and drive they so loved and acted like a neuter, lazy and no drive. Almost kind of depressed. It broke their owners hearts, because they could never undo the mistake and get back the dog they loved. Also current research shows bone growth plates are affected by the loss of necessary hormones from early spays and neuters. I was surprised to read much of the new research that admits to not being politically correct but showing we are causing more harm to our pets and increases in things like some cancers and all sorts of negative effects no one wants to talk about. This makes total sense to me because nature would not create something we had to "fix".
I do not believe in fixing something that nature did not create "broken". You pay a price everytime you play God and fool with nature.
In truth people are causing an over population problem and destroying the land for farming, water supplies are polluted and running short. Our air is polluted. The earth can not expand to keep accommadating more people so we should respect it and our natural resources and think about things like that. One day a future generation may not have anything left once its all destroyed. We once had lots of beautiful green land and woogs in our area and now its like a wall to wall development. Seeing non stop rows of houses where there was once beautiful land breaks my heart.
I have always belived in being responsible for my pets. Because an animal is intact does not mean it is producing unwanted puppies or kittens. It does not mean its owner is irresponsible. This is supposed to be a discussion among adults. These are my honest feelings.
There was a time I also believed in spaying and neutering until I looked deeper and put what is best for the animals first. I have a great love and respect for animals.

 

[Haviris]

Nature did not creat the domestic dog, people did. Being in heat, or smelling a female in heat can be very stressful on the dog 'nature' is telling the dog to mate, and not being able to can take a tole on the body. 'That' is the only difference I saw when my male was neutered, he no longer went through being clinging and whinny and restless everytime my neighbor's dogs were in heat, it was a small thing that at the time I didn't think much of, until he was neutered! Then I noticed! He seemed so much more relaxed and happy! Nothing about his personality or drive changed. He's 10 years old now, which is good for a dane! Neutering hasn't hurt, or slowed him down any! My female was spayed early, she's currently 7 1/2 and healthy as a horse (both her parents died at 8, I think Havoc's dad did to), she's slowed down some (thankfully, my family would say, they don't miss the white tornado), she's always been more puppyish and very active, she's my trail buddy! My chinese crested was spayed later, and honestly other than not missing the horrible heats, there was pretty much no change in her at all, she's the same as she's always been. I admit spaying her was as much for me as it was for her, I couldn't stand the heats and had desided not to breed her, so why deal w/ it. And I think it's better for her to, during the time she was in heat all she wanted to was to get out and hook up w/ the doxie standing outside the door, no desire to eat, she was restless, whinny and annoying, I couldn't even take her outside because that other dog was there (thankfully he was the only one, maybe no one else could break into my yard).

For a long time I didn't really see the need to neutering, spaying yes! Don't want any babies, but neutering not so much, I've changed I guess, I just think they live happier, less stressed lives. It may be ok for a male that is never w/in smelling distance of a female in heat, but a female can not excape it. Now I do think I prefer to wait on a male til he's over a year old, w/ a female I prefer to do it before she comes in heat for the first time.

That said I think it's a choice each owner should make on their own and shouldn't be pushed on them, as long as they are responsible for their pet.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

So your saying there is no pet over population, even though each year between 6 and 8 million dogs and cats are brought to shelters each year. There is something seriously wrong with that. (not with what you said, its your opinion, but with all these poor animals ending up in shelters) If there was no population problem, there shouldnt be any in shelters.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I don't think most people advocating it here are advocating it as a convenience for PEOPLE! Not sure where you are getting that.

Most of us are advocating it as a 'medical necessity', if you will, in order to avoid having to kill a whole lot of dogs for which there are not enough homes. (Or keep them in little metal cages for their whole miserable lives. Or whatever other solution you might advance for the simple basic problem that there are a whole lot more dogs in the country than there are "open slots" in dog-owning households)

It is all well and fine to say "people should keep their unaltered dogs strictly controlled so there are never any unwanted pregnancies" but realistically this just DOES NOT happen, and really never CAN happen 100% (there will always be a dog slipping out the door ahead of you once in a long while, or a male running up on the street to breed your leashed in-heat female before you can chase him off, etc)

Until and unless such a time occurs that there is a home available for ALL unwanted dogs (except perhaps those with intractable problems), and none have to be either euthanized or miserably "warehoused" in shelters for the rest of their sad lives, there most certianly IS a pet overpopulation problem. Avoiding suffering by avoiding adding to it DOES seem to me a medically responsible reason for spay/neuter.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Yea the problem is that we as humans have got it in our mind that when we see a stray/farrel/unwanted dog or cat that it should be taken to a shelter an put down. God forbid something as high class as a human would have to share its domain with other animals. Think of the eyesore an the property values.
Killing dogs to keep them out of sight an out of mind is wrong. It is no better than the Germans carting people that they thought were eyesores off to camps an then putting them down. Or the US when they did the same to the Native Americans 2 years after fighting a war they claim was for equality for nonwhites. There are ferel dogs an cats in every part of the world but only a few countrys are killing them off. The rest of the world just lets them grow to a stable population an only kills actual problem animals.

My county has no shelter an we do fine with our population of wild dogs an cats. I have 3 or 4 cats that use my property an several dogs, two hounds, a Collie, an a Pomeranian that I have scene this week. They are not hurting a thing so I see no reason to build a shelter just to collect an kill them. The wild dog an cat population here is still the same now as it was 20 years ago but in those 20 years the human population as doubled an now they are barking about the need for a shelter to get rid of all the strays. So yes animal control is about the convenience of humans not dogs an cats.

Sure, the current line of political mambo jumbo is to get all dogs an cats fixed but the real fix is to start controlling the breeding of humans.

 

[gritsar]

Just wanted to add: I am mindful of where the dogs are at all times; especially before opening a door. Our dogs are on their leashes before we ever open the door for them to go outside into our fenced yard. Both boys are also trained for total recall, meaning they come straight back to us when called.
I fail to see the danger of them getting more than five feet away from us i.e., long enough to breed.