Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[Redyre Rotties]

I have owned intact male and female dogs for well over 20 years.

I have never had an accidental litter.

If you can keep your dog from being hit by a car, you can keep it from breeding inappropriately. All that is needed is fencing and responsibility.

For many breeds, including Rottweilers in particular, there are serious health consequences down the line when they are subject to early sexual neutering.

I do not require the sexual neutering of any dogs I sell before the age of 6 years old. I do ask that the females be spayed by age 7 to avoid old age pyo. Male dogs are exempt from sexual neutering as long as they have no health issues associated with being intact.

I do not breed a lot, and I keep in contact with my puppy buyers. Each dog I sell is sold with a signed sales agreement that outlines in detail the requirements for a dog to qualify for breeding.

I have yet to have any report of any accidental breedings or litters from dogs I have sold to others.

JMO of course.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

My county has no shelter an we do fine with our population of wild dogs an cats. I have 3 or 4 cats that use my property an several dogs, two hounds, a Collie, an a Pomeranian that I have scene this week. They are not hurting a thing so I see no reason to build a shelter just to collect an kill them. The wild dog an cat population here is still the same now as it was 20 years ago but in those 20 years the human population as doubled an now they are barking about the need for a shelter to get rid of all the strays. So yes animal control is about the convenience of humans not dogs an cats.

They aren't hurting a thing, but they themselves are hurting. There is no way each one of those animals are healthy. I have had a couple stray cats, and I have had no problem with them either. I fed them, but seeing them come back limping, or with eye infections from fighting with other toms was horrible.

Yea the problem is that we as humans have got it in our mind that when we see a stray/farrel/unwanted dog or cat that it should be taken to a shelter an put down.

I dont think that unwanted animals should be killed. Its not their fault.


There are several populations of feral cats around here. Rescue groups TNR them (trap, neuter, release). They get fed daily by volunteers, and they do just fine.

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[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sorry, but just because you personally have been both extra-careful *and* lucky (and believe me, luck is involved -- I know an extremely responsible dog breeder who had a really pretty totally unavoidable oops-pregnancy) does not make it reasonable, IMHO, to rely on everyone ELSE in the world being equally never-inattentive and always-lucky.

(Again, I have no personal opinion on *age* of neutering, I don't have enough dog-specific vet knowledge to really know the situation well enough)

And there is a difference between keeping intact a dog that might very realistically BE breeding material once you've had a chance to evaluate him/her for some years, versus keeping intact a dog that let's face it may be a fun companion and all that but is not necessarily going to be an asset to the next generation of the gene pool. So I don't think your exact situation really applies to *most* dog owners out there

JMO,

Pat

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Hurting? Relative to what? Define healthy? Healthy compared to someones house pets or compared to the average raccoon? Yes nature is not nice but it is that way for a reason. Trying to change it may feel right but it is not.

Quote:
Most people in there hearts don't but but the mindset is still ingrained in to our culture. What puts it there? Shelters an people with a badge that work for them.

In my opinion shelters themselves are what propagate the "throw a way pet" mindset. If they were not there then yes they would be more strays but our culture would be more respectful of dogs an puppys would not be a multimillion dollar business.

I guess I should say that my dogs are in a fence an do not run loose. I have the ability to keep my dogs in an other dogs out with fences. see no reason to cage an kill strays. They should have the right to live off the land an nature cull the weak.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
C'mon, that is not the usual motivation

I dunno, maybe you live in a special lucky area, but where I'm familiar with, feral dogs and cats generally live short and generally pretty unhappy lives (often culminating in weeks or months of severe pain from lingering injuries/disease), and they can cause quite a lot of havoc to humans, pets and livestock, not to mention wildlife.

The rest of the world just lets them grow to a stable population an only kills actual problem animals.

Yes, that's right, and the rest of the world has approximately 50,000 people dying PER YEAR from rabies, mainly from bites from feral dogs. Don't think it couldn't happen here. And remember that rabies in wild animal populations has EXPLODED since the days of "Old Yeller"; it used to be a very rare and locally-restricted disease, but now, without vaccination... (Unless you are a big advocate of vaccine-baiting, which is a whole 'nother big can o worms).

Plus there is the demonstrable cost to wildlife and livestock populations, and injuries to humans and domestic pets, from wild dog pack attacks.

And you can of course believe whatever you want, but if spay-neuter campaigns are a sign of a stealth human-eugenics agenda, then my goodness, what *isn't*, like using red and green lights for traffic lights (trying to weed out the colorblind!!) or selling chewing gum with those little foil wrappers on it (trying to let those with poor immune systems take over the world!)

Sorry, but, really,

Pat​

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Quote:
Sorry, but just because you personally have been both extra-careful *and* lucky (and believe me, luck is involved -- I know an extremely responsible dog breeder who had a really pretty totally unavoidable oops-pregnancy) does not make it reasonable, IMHO, to rely on everyone ELSE in the world being equally never-inattentive and always-lucky.

(Again, I have no personal opinion on *age* of neutering, I don't have enough dog-specific vet knowledge to really know the situation well enough)

And there is a difference between keeping intact a dog that might very realistically BE breeding material once you've had a chance to evaluate him/her for some years, versus keeping intact a dog that let's face it may be a fun companion and all that but is not necessarily going to be an asset to the next generation of the gene pool. So I don't think your exact situation really applies to *most* dog owners out there

JMO,

Pat

Yes, accidents can happen to the best people.

However, for me it is not luck that keeps me from having accidental litters. It is making certain that there are always a minimum of 2 barriers between any in season b.itch and other dogs, it is never turning a b.itch in season out into the exercise yard without my direct supervision, and never EVER leaving the care of a grump in season to any other person.

It takes some care, but it is not rocket science.

 

[alabamachick]

My 2 Cents.

On the part about Wild dogs and cats not HURTING Anything - BS, completely and utterly BS.

Anyone watch Animal Planet? Sure you do. Houston Animal Cops. Makes me cry everytime, but I still watch it so I can remember why I ALWAYS adopt my pets.
On the episode last night a herd of goats was attacked by a pack of wild dogs. Only FOUR of the goats survived. Only ONE was left with something that LOOKED like an ear, and I think two of them were missing tails! This is Houston Texas mind you, NOT some third world country that cant afford a shelter or whatever, so if its happening here, you know its worse in other countries.

I cant even tell you how many times I've been CHASED DOWN on my horse by ferral dogs. Literally HUGE RottiX dogs trying to ATTACK me on my 17hh horse.

2nd Point. Anyone notice how LARGE Coyotes are getting? Because they are breeding with said ferral dogs!

For all of those that dont spay and neuter... Good Luck.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Again my opinions are mine so you are free to disagree but remember every time you say how feral dogs effect humans an there livestock you are proving that it has nothing to do with dogs an has everything to do with humans. Both the overpopulation of humans an our mindset that we can do what we please to other animals to make more room for us.

As for wildlife, Coyotes an wolves are dogs an they live fine with nature. It is us humans that do not.

 

[alpinefarm]

I have worked in rescue for a long time and I have a couple thoughts on the problem of dogs that end up *unwanted* at some point in their lives. Most of these dogs do not come from caring breeders or caring families. Occasionally, we get a dog into our program that a responsible breeder or owner has lost track of, but usually they originate with people who breed their animals w/o planning ahead of time (don't have the best stock to begin with and do no testing for genetic issues) and they don't plan for them after birth and placement, either, don't follow the progress of their new life and aren't willing to take them back if the placement is inappropriate. We consider all of these litters as coming from puppy mills...some "official" mills, some just backyard ones. It seems almost impossible to stem the tide of these thoughtlessly bred litters. These folks get their stock *somewhere* and their practices result in many suffering, throw-away animals.

That said, I would love to see alternative birth control options more commonly available for the truly conscientious pet owner. I personally have not tended to spay/neuter my own home-bred "working" sighthounds, partly because I know that they perform in field trials much better when left intact. I feel, and this is my own subjective opinion based only in my experience only within my own breed, that mine have been healthier overall and longer lived than friends'/acquaintances' dogs of the same breed who have spayed/neutered them. Hormones have many positive purposes within a living body, including brain health. And yes, young intact males tend to go through a macho phase, but mine who were not neutered also had the opportunity to learn to control themselves and they did mellow out, given some time and understanding.

Also, spay/neuter surgeries, like any other type of surgery, can be botched...as evidenced by the little rescue girl I adopted who had been given up to a shelter and then "rejected" again by 7 other successive adopters because she couldn't be house-trained. Come to find out, in her spay surgery, her urinary tract had "nicked" with a blade and the hole then meant she could not hold urine. She also tends to develop frequent infections. We've adapted to her needs with a doggie door and using cranberries in her diet, but it will be a lifetime condition.

Just my jumble of thoughts today and I wish I had more answers to the problem overall, as rescue work is heartbreaking and never seems to end...

 

[aggieterpkatie]

I'm pretty sure my signature says it all.

I get SO extremely irritated at the lack of concern for breeding subpar pets because babies are "cute" or they want to do it "just this once." In my opinion, there's no reason NOT to spay or neuter a dog you dont' intend to breed. Also, one of my male dogs was neutered at 7 weeks (the rescue did it before I got him) and my other male dog was neutered at 11 weeks (by the rescue before I got him) and neither has had any health issues from the early neutering. I'm not saying I recommend neutering before 6 months, but I think that's a cop out excuse by many people.

Sometimes it's hard for me to visit this forum because of all the irresponsible breeding going on.