Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

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I know lots of dog breeders, its in my blood starting with my Grandmother. I know of but don't personally know any breeder who has a defect come up and then hides it from the rest of the world. Its hard but they all will keep the pupppy if the defect isn't life threatening and neuter/spay and home the dog in a good pet home. My best friend is a breeder, she recently had one litter where three of the puppies were Megasophagas and she euthanized all three puppies at 8 weeks old. Those pups were already sold and the owners and everyone else surrounding the litter knows. No one is beating her up for it.

Not all breeders are evil.

However I maintain that most "dog people" are a little on the strange side

 

[Pupsnpullets]

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I know lots of dog breeders, its in my blood starting with my Grandmother. I know of but don't personally know any breeder who has a defect come up and then hides it from the rest of the world. Its hard but they all will keep the puppy if the defect isn't life threatening and neuter/spay and home the dog in a good pet home. My best friend is a breeder, she recently had one litter where three of the puppies were Megasophagas and she euthanized all three puppies at 8 weeks old. Those pups were already sold and the owners and everyone else surrounding the litter knows. No one is beating her up for it.

Not all breeders are evil.

However I maintain that most "dog people" are a little on the strange side

Mmmm..... while I don't think it's evil to euthanize pups with birth defects, in fact it's could be considered taking responsibility for them. What concerns me is pushing the boundaries until the genes finally miss fire. Physical defects are one thing which can usually be picked up before the pup is an adult, but what about the temperament issues and other mental defects. Line breeding can quickly become inbreeding and we really are seeing a lot of that these days - which, of course, brings us right back to the spay-neuter issue,

- however, the backyard breeders certainly aren't the only ones contributing to this problem.

If I were to get another pup after my current to dogs are gone, I would really seriously consider using a careful, thoughtful back yard breeder who has both parents on site. It wouldn't concern me too much if the pups weren't purebred but the highest criteria I would use is that both parents be sane and healthy. I wouldn't even consider getting pups from mass production bybs either. I don't want to encourage that, but a pup from an 'oops' litter or perhaps even purebred baby from a small selective breeder would be worth considering, too.

These are the thoughts I have now from observing what's happening with the dog population. In a few years time this could all change for me. I'm more than happy with my aging mutt and equally old un-papered purebred, both of which were hand-me-downs from this sadly throw away society, so I'm not looking for another dog. And, ya know, my next dog will probably be another refugee like these two, anyway, and I'll just take it and love it, warts and all

 

[QuailHollow]

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This is the best thing I've heard all day! Love it.

I show my dogs, and hunt test my dogs... and I agree that the majority of people who involve themselves with these activites are hypocrites.

At any point in time in their world, you could substitute the word "Mutt" for "Black Skin", and Purebred for "White skin" and get a 4 century old idea back in a single sentance. I know, I've done it - with my own breed club.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Ok people, dogs are not human. Please stop comparing them to humans. I love my dog like he is my kid, but I know he's still a dog. There's a huge difference between animals and humans, so it makes no sense to compare dogs to humans.

 

[redhen]

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If it were up to me, there would be quite a few humans that would be spayed or neutered.

That would fix the issue at hand better than fixing dogs does.


Ya ever wonder.... The people that preach about only breeding the best of the best show dogs an that has had there genome mapped an what ever else test you can think of.... Ever wonder if they have kids. Wonder what kind of stuff they did to prove they were the best of the best an were worthy to breed.
I think we should drag them to the orphanages as ask them why they chose to contribute to the human overpopulation problem when they could have adopted......

Looked it up... The number I found was 2.9 million children in the US without parents in 2004........

Good point Cowboy!! If they are sooo interested in the creating the "perfect" example of a breed... before THEY breed..they better have some genetic testing done...

And, i'm only talking about those breeders that run their mouths about other supposed "lower quality" dogs breeding...
The ones that mind their OWN business..i have no problem with..... and i actually respect them for the work that they do..

 

[bagendhens]

im spayed, no kids, best thing ever happend to me lol

 

[Mrs. Green Thumbs]

Personally, I have worked in the rescue of abandoned animals on my own and worked with clinics and a few organization's like the BSPCA and our local humane society my entire adult life. I have seen Giant poodles that are pure breed abandoned and left for dead come into the pet hospital half eaten alive by maggot's, dog's abandoned at the clinic door because of mange so bad that the poor girl was miserable with scabs covering her and eye's bald and swollen almost shut, chihuahua's that had been beaten till they had a broken back (I did water therapy on one of the poor thing's and found it a special home with an elderly lady), Iv seen a lot of thing's but the thing that make's me angry is the fact that no matter how quickly we work or how many we save there are thousands in this country every day that are put down because there is simply no place for them to go, pure breed and mutt's alike. Not because they are bad dog's. Just because there is no place for them.

Now I agree for some breeds that are rare there is a reason to keep the animal in tact, but only if the breeder is educated and breeding for purity of the breed AND being responsible for the pups. Meaning that person is willing and able to take back a pup no matter what happens with the adoptive family. I can't see any reason for keeping an animal in tact for any other reason. My chihuahua Ricky was neutered at 1 year old. My husband hmmed and hawed the process over his guilt and empathy for Rick, until I got fed up and just took him down. I'm happy to say that all of his "problems" were dulled with the loss of testosterone. We had of course found him after he had gone through a lot of abuse apparently and he was VERY child aggressive, he was overwhelmingly hyper, he had separation anxiety, and in general was a very anxious and distressed little boy. Now he is happy, calm, and friendly with our 6 year old. Ricky still greets us and our guest's with gusto but will calm down and be able to enjoy every one's company after the first flush of excitement is over. I now have a dog that is happy and healthy mentally, emotionally and physically. While I agree it is each individual owner's right to their own preference I can't help but wounder why people are so compelled to keep intact animals. I'm sure a lot of people keep their animals properly secured in their own yard's or home's but that does not mean that other people do. Iv heard MANY story's about a grump in heat and males literally scaling 6 foot fencing to get to her.

I hate the excuse "it will protect your animal from cancer" it makes me feel like pro spay and neuter people are trying to twist non spay and neuter owner's arm with scary statistic's. Truth is if I have my uterus removed I will not get uterin cancer... BECAUSE MY UTERUS IS GONE. DUH. It bother's me because there are better and more realistic reason's to neuter or spay an animal.

I happen to be pro spay and neuter because I know where the poor helpless souls who are less lucky than hopefully some of their litter mates end up, frozen in plastic bag's, tossed in a trash bin like yesterday's garbage, and incinerated with countless other poor souls. It's hard on a person like myself that believes each and every living thing has a spirit. But it's something that must be done because there is no end in sight of other animals in need of help.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

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Sounds a whole lot like an argument I have heard my whole life.... Seems like we always have to think we are superior to something.

Wonder if a spider sees a fly as an uncomparably inferior living creature.

Not that I think I should treat a dog as another human but I sure dont think so highly of myself that I would think there is no comparison between dogs an humans.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

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Well when we have total control over what we do with our pets and not total control over other people, you don't see the difference there?

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

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Sounds a whole lot like an argument I have heard my whole life.... Seems like we always have to think we are superior to something.

Wonder if a spider sees a fly as an uncomparably inferior living creature.

Not that I think I should treat a dog as another human but I sure dont think so highly of myself that I would think there is no comparison between dogs an humans.

On this subject I have strong feelings. Treating a dog like a person is DISrespectful IMO. Why? Because dogs have their own needs as dogs, treating a dog like a person is ignoring the very nature and needs of that animal. Its rediculous and one of the main problems I see when I go to a clients house to do the behavior evaluation. If people would see a dog for what it is and stop trying to humanize it everyone would be more happy. Humanizing a dog is one of the number one reasons I get called out to do behavior evaluations. And its all the owners fault.

What Aggieterpkatie was saying was that people were making a comparison between spaying/neuter a person and a dog. Come on...No one is going to ever get any governing body to start opening spay and neuter clinics for humans. Then we get all gummed up in the issue of whom is to decide who can have children or who is worthy. Now, VOLUNTARY, spay and neuter for humans is a good idea. Most doctors won't do a Tubaligation or Vasectomy on a patien unless they meed certain criteria to do so. It can be hard to go and convince your doctor that you for sure don't want kids in the future.

Personally I don't want the government to tell me whether I can have an intact animal or not. My county already has higher pet liscencing fees for intact animals.