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Thanks, I wasn't sure if I worded it so it was understandable.
Thanks, I wasn't sure if I worded it so it was understandable.
Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion
- Thread starter Jamie_Dog_Trainer
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I was joking. I think that most people understand that the people comments were meant to be funny. Nobody is starting a spay/neuter clinic for people.
I was joking. I think that most people understand that the people comments were meant to be funny. Nobody is starting a spay/neuter clinic for people.
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Well when we have total control over what we do with our pets and not total control over other people, you don't see the difference there?
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I started that argument pages back.
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You are just selling my point. The whole human way of life revolves around being a hypocrite.
Were the problem, we know we are the problem. But being as we make the rules we can forget about right an wrong an just do whats best for the humans. Then all the other humans follow along with it.
Well when we have total control over what we do with our pets and not total control over other people, you don't see the difference there?
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I started that argument pages back.
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You are just selling my point. The whole human way of life revolves around being a hypocrite.
Were the problem, we know we are the problem. But being as we make the rules we can forget about right an wrong an just do whats best for the humans. Then all the other humans follow along with it.
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I spay and neuter all of my dogs. I would not do have dogs or cats any other way. I work in Adoption as well and have to deal with our local Kill/ Animal control shelters and it is so sad to go in there and pick up a greyhound that was brought there to bring back to our program. I am so grateful that we are a no kill shelter.
I also just wanted to say that I hate the term "Put to Sleep". The animals are not being put to sleep, they are being killed and I think if we used the word killed more often people would think twice before buying that pure breed puppy at the flea market or allowing their dogs to mate because they are cute and would have cute puppies or "it's a man thing" about having male dogs neutered (I hear this one all of the time) and all of the other excuses for not doing the responsible thing as a pet owner.
I also want to say that I have no problem with RESPONSIBLE, DEDICATED breeders breeding dogs and cats for show purposes to the Standard of Perfection for dogs and cats (forgive me I do not know what the correct term is for dog and cat standards). I have 2 Italian Greyhounds that I purchased from a breeder. They were sold to me as pet quality and came with a mountain of paperwork including a spay/neuter contact stating that the dogs had to be fixed and documentation had to be sent showing the alteration or the breeder could re-posses the dogs at my expense. I doubt I would ever go the pure breed route again, but like I said I have no problem with responsible, educated breeding.
This is JMO
I also just wanted to say that I hate the term "Put to Sleep". The animals are not being put to sleep, they are being killed and I think if we used the word killed more often people would think twice before buying that pure breed puppy at the flea market or allowing their dogs to mate because they are cute and would have cute puppies or "it's a man thing" about having male dogs neutered (I hear this one all of the time) and all of the other excuses for not doing the responsible thing as a pet owner.
I also want to say that I have no problem with RESPONSIBLE, DEDICATED breeders breeding dogs and cats for show purposes to the Standard of Perfection for dogs and cats (forgive me I do not know what the correct term is for dog and cat standards). I have 2 Italian Greyhounds that I purchased from a breeder. They were sold to me as pet quality and came with a mountain of paperwork including a spay/neuter contact stating that the dogs had to be fixed and documentation had to be sent showing the alteration or the breeder could re-posses the dogs at my expense. I doubt I would ever go the pure breed route again, but like I said I have no problem with responsible, educated breeding.
This is JMO
"pure" breeds end up homeless ALL the time too....
just saying...
So...why do THEY not have to be fixed?? makes no sense to me...honestly. Can noone else see the irony/hypocrisy in this??
Why is it okay to breed pure breeds...but not mutts? when they BOTH end up in shelters and rescues... and TRUST me..pure breed rescues are FULL of PURE bred dogs...
Think about it for a minute... REEEEALLY think about it for a minute.... who are you to judge?? Thats what i wonder?? What makes your dog okay to breed but not my dog??
Again..just MY opinion....
just saying...
So...why do THEY not have to be fixed?? makes no sense to me...honestly. Can noone else see the irony/hypocrisy in this??
Why is it okay to breed pure breeds...but not mutts? when they BOTH end up in shelters and rescues... and TRUST me..pure breed rescues are FULL of PURE bred dogs...
Think about it for a minute... REEEEALLY think about it for a minute.... who are you to judge?? Thats what i wonder?? What makes your dog okay to breed but not my dog??
Again..just MY opinion....
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- Thread starter
- #177
Horsejody--I wasnt arguing with you or even commenting on your post. Just making something a little more clear, a point a couple of us were trying to make
rebelcowboysnb--yes I read your posts, and I wasn't trying to go against your point, rather I was trying to keep a big misunderstanding from happening. Yes *pat, pat* you were the first to bring up that point
Redhen--I totally get what you are saying, and I agree with you in the respect that there are many breeders of dogs that don't care anything for the breed, its just about the puppies they get hundreds of dollars for. Its a double edged sword. You have people breeding dogs that shouldn't and at the same time I don't want anyone to try and tell me that I MUST spay/neuter or else. I feel that I'm responsible enough to make my own choices. IDK the answers you were posing. Do we ALL spay and neuter except with, say, a license OR do we all keep the choice our own and allow a lot of unwanted animals born and abused? *sigh*
rebelcowboysnb--yes I read your posts, and I wasn't trying to go against your point, rather I was trying to keep a big misunderstanding from happening. Yes *pat, pat* you were the first to bring up that point
Redhen--I totally get what you are saying, and I agree with you in the respect that there are many breeders of dogs that don't care anything for the breed, its just about the puppies they get hundreds of dollars for. Its a double edged sword. You have people breeding dogs that shouldn't and at the same time I don't want anyone to try and tell me that I MUST spay/neuter or else. I feel that I'm responsible enough to make my own choices. IDK the answers you were posing. Do we ALL spay and neuter except with, say, a license OR do we all keep the choice our own and allow a lot of unwanted animals born and abused? *sigh*
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Isn't that human and animal nature? To do what's best for them? That's what keeps a species going!
And redhen, nobody is saying only spay/neuter the mutts. Purebreds should be spayed/neutered too! IMO, any dog that isn't intentionally being bred for a specific purpose by a responsible breeder should be altered.
Isn't that human and animal nature? To do what's best for them? That's what keeps a species going!
And redhen, nobody is saying only spay/neuter the mutts. Purebreds should be spayed/neutered too! IMO, any dog that isn't intentionally being bred for a specific purpose by a responsible breeder should be altered.
it isn't really the purebreeds anymore, imo......what about all these designer dogs that sell for hundreds?. people have an accidental(or on purpose) litter from 2 breeds, make up some cute name and charge hundreds sometimes over $1000. I used to thumb through the "for sale" pages and people would charge $50 for a puppy. Now I didn't see anything less than $300. I personally think too many people think you can make a profit before they really look into it....... many breeds were developed by cross breeding more than one breed, had that not been done we would have fewer breeds. I think too many people breed for the wrong reason
Can noone else see the irony/hypocrisy in this??
Why is it okay to breed pure breeds...but not mutts? when they BOTH end up in shelters and rescues... and TRUST me..pure breed rescues are FULL of PURE bred dogs...
Think about it for a minute... REEEEALLY think about it for a minute.... who are you to judge?? Thats what i wonder?? What makes your dog okay to breed but not my dog??
Again..just MY opinion....
I'll never understand this...
By today's mentality- the only reputable/honest/& readily acceptable canine breeders are the ones breeding already established varieties on the face of the Earth. By what time-line do we institute this? Where is the termination? If the Golden Retriever and Saint Bernard were the only dog breeds on the face of the planet when an individual is born, does that mean that is all there ever should be? Do people think their great-great-grandchildren are going to care that a Poodle was crossed with a Labrador many years from now? Really..? What will happen is human nature. People .... *forget*. Each generation removed from the founding event will cease to hold the same emotional resentment that is witnessed today. And eventually, some day, they may even become accepting.
Imagine that.
And I wish someone would explain to me what 'poor breeding' actually means? Isn't the exchange of DNA a good thing? Did everyone have high school? Isn't that why evolution opted out of asexuality and incorporated genetic recombination in the complex organism? Is allowing the natural mating of two unrelated dogs really a "poor" breeding - or - is it a perceptive elitist ideology?
"Well, Joe - This dog breeding was bad."
"Really Larry, why's that? The pups are bright and healthy..."
"Well, you see, the good breeding dog populations are isolated, artificial, and incestual."
"Ohhh.. right. So I failed?"
"Yes, you did. Now spay & neuter everyone. Don't forget yourself."
Honestly... There is no perfect organism, and if there were, a 100% perfect dog would be so inbred as to also have inherited have some other genetic anomaly that inhibits it's ability to thrive, survive, and - reproduce. Therefore, even the most die-hard dog enthusiast will admit - it's all a matter of what you can live with.. What they don't tell you is, how heartbreaking it is to have litter after litter come up a disaster.... or how a breeding just doesn't happen at all. That's called a "Mother Nature Veto". Breeder's try to veto back. How? Veto = AI each breeding. Veto = C-section litters. Veto = hand raise the puppies. Veto = Temperature controlled kennels. Veto = cosmetic and/or structural surgery. The list goes on. And this is "good breeding."
No organism can ever be 'perfect', only perfectly adapted. The dog's ability to survive depends on it's symbiotic relationship with humanity. This is how it has always been. The dog as an organism will continue to adapt and change, just as the zeitgeist changes its color. Thousands of years from now, it may not even exist. Who knows.. but what I am certain of, is something else will take its place.
Why is it okay to breed pure breeds...but not mutts? when they BOTH end up in shelters and rescues... and TRUST me..pure breed rescues are FULL of PURE bred dogs...
Think about it for a minute... REEEEALLY think about it for a minute.... who are you to judge?? Thats what i wonder?? What makes your dog okay to breed but not my dog??
Again..just MY opinion....
I'll never understand this...
By today's mentality- the only reputable/honest/& readily acceptable canine breeders are the ones breeding already established varieties on the face of the Earth. By what time-line do we institute this? Where is the termination? If the Golden Retriever and Saint Bernard were the only dog breeds on the face of the planet when an individual is born, does that mean that is all there ever should be? Do people think their great-great-grandchildren are going to care that a Poodle was crossed with a Labrador many years from now? Really..? What will happen is human nature. People .... *forget*. Each generation removed from the founding event will cease to hold the same emotional resentment that is witnessed today. And eventually, some day, they may even become accepting.
Imagine that.
And I wish someone would explain to me what 'poor breeding' actually means? Isn't the exchange of DNA a good thing? Did everyone have high school? Isn't that why evolution opted out of asexuality and incorporated genetic recombination in the complex organism? Is allowing the natural mating of two unrelated dogs really a "poor" breeding - or - is it a perceptive elitist ideology?
"Well, Joe - This dog breeding was bad."
"Really Larry, why's that? The pups are bright and healthy..."
"Well, you see, the good breeding dog populations are isolated, artificial, and incestual."
"Ohhh.. right. So I failed?"
"Yes, you did. Now spay & neuter everyone. Don't forget yourself."
Honestly... There is no perfect organism, and if there were, a 100% perfect dog would be so inbred as to also have inherited have some other genetic anomaly that inhibits it's ability to thrive, survive, and - reproduce. Therefore, even the most die-hard dog enthusiast will admit - it's all a matter of what you can live with.. What they don't tell you is, how heartbreaking it is to have litter after litter come up a disaster.... or how a breeding just doesn't happen at all. That's called a "Mother Nature Veto". Breeder's try to veto back. How? Veto = AI each breeding. Veto = C-section litters. Veto = hand raise the puppies. Veto = Temperature controlled kennels. Veto = cosmetic and/or structural surgery. The list goes on. And this is "good breeding."
No organism can ever be 'perfect', only perfectly adapted. The dog's ability to survive depends on it's symbiotic relationship with humanity. This is how it has always been. The dog as an organism will continue to adapt and change, just as the zeitgeist changes its color. Thousands of years from now, it may not even exist. Who knows.. but what I am certain of, is something else will take its place.
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