Dogs in heat... I have a question...

[h2oratt]

Well call it what you want but they all have the same hormonal all changes wether they are pregnant or not. One of the few mammals that does.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Well call it what you want but they all have the same hormonal all changes wether they are pregnant or not. One of the few mammals that does.

That is somewhat correct. Dogs have a prolonged period of high progesterone whether pregnant or not, where as other mammals tend to have regression of the corpus luteum and a reduction in progesterone if they do not get pregnant after estrus. This is not, however, the same thing as a false pregancy.

 

[dainerra]

I have read several studies that have found that spaying a female before her first heat greatly lessens her chances of getting breast cancer. I have found that to be true in my own dogs.

this is true. however, it can also increase the risk of several other types of cancer that are more common in certain breeds of dogs. Breast cancer, on the other hand, is often less common. The question would be one of weighing risks, knowing the bloodlines of your dog and your particular breed.
In countries where spay/neuter is rarely performed, they have a lower incidence of almost all types of cancer.

 

[dainerra]

Thanks! I rarely get to laugh that hard in the morning. My Veterinarian had a great time composing answers this morning. Then he pointed out that I was the only person in the world who could find a dog breeder to argue with on a chicken site. He is right. The American Veterinary Medicine Association says fix your dog. I would take the advise of a bunch of vets over others. I am now leaving this conversation. I can argue about dogs at work (groomer) , or on the nonprofit boards I am a part of (shelter and godogdays.org) but in 20 years of rescue the one thing I am sure of is fix the dog.

true but, as I said, many vets also disagree with that advice. the same as many vets also disagree with the push for yearly vaccinations. So, it depends on your vet.
Vets that routinely deal with breeders and farmers often have a very different view of those 2 practices than a vet who routinely deals with pet owners.

Yes, rescue dogs should be fixed. The question isn't so much "should you fix your dog" but "when" With the case of rescue puppies, the law often dictates when it must be done. But if that isn't the case or isn't required, then other things can be taken into account.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

this is true.  however, it can also increase the risk of several other types of cancer that are more common in certain breeds of dogs.    Breast cancer, on the other hand, is often less common.     The question would be one of weighing risks, knowing the bloodlines of your dog and your particular breed.    
In countries where spay/neuter is rarely performed, they have a lower incidence of almost all types of cancer.   

I will have to find the numbers to back my claims, but I'm fairly certain the last statement is not true. In countries (like Europe) that don't spay and neuter, and don't do it early, they have a higher incidence of intact related cancers. I remember learning the relative number of cancer is the same, but the distribution is different.

What cancers have you been told have increased risk in altered dogs? I'm genuinely curious because I vaguely remember something about that but I can't remember what off the top of my head.

Mammary cancers in this country are fairly common. Most intact female dogs will get them at an older age. Some can spread to more than one mammary gland and can also met really easily. Females have a higher risk of pyometra with every cycle they do not conceive, which can be a real problem is dogs and breeds that are predisposed. Male dogs that are intact will very often end up with some sort of prostate related health issue, but there are also Sertoli cell tumors, interstitial cell tumors, and a type of anal gland (I think) adenocarcinoma.

Europe has their own set of medical problems, though.

 

[Zoomie]

I am sure no expert here, and will defer to others... but my understanding is, that if a dog is actually going into heat one can look at the cells under a microscope and see if they are "cornified" or not. Simply swab the vulva and then take a look at the cells under a microscope. Perhaps this will give a more definitive answer.

I have a neighbor who breeds Australian shepherds and she's had me check for this for her before. In my opinion, it's pretty easy to see the cornified cells, even if one is not an expert.

 

[dainerra]

I will have to find the numbers to back my claims, but I'm fairly certain the last statement is not true. In countries (like Europe) that don't spay and neuter, and don't do it early, they have a higher incidence of intact related cancers. I remember learning the relative number of cancer is the same, but the distribution is different.

Lymphomas, bone cancers, and others. There is also a higher incidence of hip/joint issues as well as ACL injuries in dogs that were altered before fully grown. Hormones are what signals the growth plates to close at the proper time as well as influencing other factors of growth. Without those hormones, the dogs tend to grow taller, be lankier, etc. Not a big deal if your dogs is going to be a couch potato but if you are active with your dogs - hiking, running around the farm, competing in various dog sports, then you increase the risk of "sports" related injuries if the dog is altered young. The UCDavis study covered only Goldens but it does list the diseases and injuries found more often in dogs altered younger.

Mammary cancers in this country are fairly common. Most intact female dogs will get them at an older age. Some can spread to more than one mammary gland and can also met really easily. Females have a higher risk of pyometra with every cycle they do not conceive, which can be a real problem is dogs and breeds that are predisposed. Male dogs that are intact will very often end up with some sort of prostate related health issue, but there are also Sertoli cell tumors, interstitial cell tumors, and a type of anal gland (I think) adenocarcinoma.

For males, the only thing vastly reduced is testicular cancer - one of the easiest to diagnose cancers with the highest survival rate. Prostate issues can develop - again in older dogs, just like older males of any species. However, supplements (the same ones older men are encouraged to take!) can help prevent the development of issues. If they do develop prostate issues, neutering at that time takes care of the problem in the majority of dogs.
There doesn't seem to be an increase in the incidence of other cancers if you wait to neuter at 2 years vs doing it at 6 months old.

Responsible breeding also plays a large part in cancer risk. In the US, we tend to have more BYBs and dogs randomly bred without researching the bloodlines. Since there seems to be a large genetic component in dogs (and in humans), careful breeding can also have an effect.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Thanks for the reply Dainerra. At some point I'll dig up my notes and see what they referenced but ugh the thought of looking at notes right now brings back bad memories!

I think what it comes down to is that the average pet owner is less likely to train properly or monitor their dog in such a way that they could prevent issues or pick up abnormalities that could potentially be cured if caught early.

 

[dainerra]

Thanks for the reply Dainerra. At some point I'll dig up my notes and see what they referenced but ugh the thought of looking at notes right now brings back bad memories!

I think what it comes down to is that the average pet owner is less likely to train properly or monitor their dog in such a way that they could prevent issues or pick up abnormalities that could potentially be cured if caught early.

very true and that is the sad part. instead of pushing for education of pet owners, the norm is just to assume that they are irresponsible and uninterested in anything but the easy way out.
honestly, unintended pregnancy is the biggest reason given for spaying/neutering your dog. Yet it is the most easily prevented - all it takes is a leash.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I'm going to put a different spin on spay neutering early, before it became the norm there were stray dogs everywhere, everyone had a dog with pups, people would drown them, shoot them, throw them in the ditch in the country, shelters were gassing lots of dogs, personally I'd rather have dogs fixed early so less dogs are getting killed everyday because of irresponsible behavior out of the owners. This new thing of it's unhealthy to alter your dogs has me concerned that we are headed back to such things.