Drained a Hen's Abdomen.. Rest in Peace, Olivia 11-5-10

[casportpony]

Sorry for your loss.

Once I suspect ascites, EYP, or cancer I euthanize. It's just not fair to the animal to let it slowly starve to death, which is usually what happens.

 

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

Wasn't Baytril rendered illegal to use on poultry?

I have never seen a hen live very long after a round of bloating, except once. Months, yes, years, no. And I think it was a passing infection that I caught very, very early. She is still with me now at 10 years old, that that is only one hen. All others, and I mean many, many hens, died eventually from their internal issues. Draining the hen is never a permanent solution.

No, they do not go under anesthetic to be drained that I'm aware of-it's just a needle prick, no need for medication for it. We drained several hens periodically, but we no longer do it.

They bloat up again almost 100% of the time. We give a round of antibiotics once and only once. When they bloat up a second time, we do not give any medications, period. Some "un-bloat" on their own, but it always comes back. This is a chronic condition. Yes, they can go on for awhile, bloating then having the bloat dissipate, but it will eventually kill the hen because the underlying issue has not been resolved. Most reproductive issues being genetic/hormone-based, you really cannot fix them, not permanently. Since I quit raising hatchery stock, it rarely ever happens anymore, as I've said several times. Now I have a barn full of ancient hens, LOL.

Some bloat can be from heart or liver issues so those definitely cannot be treated. And you cannot tell which it is from looking/examining the hen yourself.

I guess not. The vet administered it and gave me a filled syringe for an additional dose. I am in pennsylvania
Not sure if it's only certain states that it's banned or what?

 

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

I'm sorry to everyone who has lost a chicken(s) to this condition. It is so horrible to see your feathered friends go through this. This web site has been very informative to me and luckily up until this point it was never for the need of "diagnosing" ailments

Just curious if anyone has seen a chicken displaying signs of reproductive issues (i.e. pumping tail end, passing a rubbery egg membrane with "cooked" yolk in stools, and walking like a penquin) that was not fatal if it wasn't proceeded immediately by normal egg laying. Didn't know if it was possible for a chicken to get a bacterial infection and have abdomen swelling as a result which in turn caused issues walking and labored breathing due to swelling.

If a chicken shows signs of egg passing issues then passes the egg but has an infection as a result, would it take several days for the hen to start reproducing eggs again (if ever) since the body was in shock and trying to fight the infection (provided the infection clears and abdominal swelling decreases). I understand that when chickens start having internal egg laying it is usually an ongoing problem that has the habit of rearing its ugly head again.

 

[casportpony]

Wasn't Baytril rendered illegal to use on poultry?

Lot's of vets prescribe it.

 

[casportpony]

I guess not. The vet administered it and gave me a filled syringe for an additional dose. I am in pennsylvania
Not sure if it's only certain states that it's banned or what?

I t banned for use in poultry in the USA and most other countries.

 

[speckledhen]

I'm sorry to everyone who has lost a chicken(s) to this condition. It is so horrible to see your feathered friends go through this. This web site has been very informative to me and luckily up until this point it was never for the need of "diagnosing" ailments

Just curious if anyone has seen a chicken displaying signs of reproductive issues (i.e. pumping tail end, passing a rubbery egg membrane with "cooked" yolk in stools, and walking like a penquin) that was not fatal if it wasn't proceeded immediately by normal egg laying. Didn't know if it was possible for a chicken to get a bacterial infection and have abdomen swelling as a result which in turn caused issues walking and labored breathing due to swelling.

If a chicken shows signs of egg passing issues then passes the egg but has an infection as a result, would it take several days for the hen to start reproducing eggs again (if ever) since the body was in shock and trying to fight the infection (provided the infection clears and abdominal swelling decreases). I understand that when chickens start having internal egg laying it is usually an ongoing problem that has the habit of rearing its ugly head again.

You've described basically two different things, to help folks not familiar with all this. Egg binding makes a hen walk like a penguin and she still has a chance to pass the egg. It can kill a hen if it isn't removed somehow or cause a prolapse from straining. It will not necessarily cause an infection because it really either kills the hen or you get it out, though if it breaks inside, it may start infection. But, you know it's happened and give antibiotics to stave it off, hopefully.

Internal laying and/or egg yolk peritonitis is completely different. The eggs are either dropped into the abdomen so they cannot be laid or they are basically backed up into the oviduct, causing an ecoli infection and blocking the tract off. Ecoli infections of the oviduct (salpingitis) can be caused by a loose cloaca that sucks feces back into the oviduct, many times in older hens. But, egg binding can usually be remedied by getting that egg out if it's close enough to the end and not just completely stuck sideways.

You have a chance to fix egg binding. You do not have a chance to fix internal laying with anything other than a hysterectomy, which she probably won't survive because by the time you know what's going on, or suspect it, it's far advanced.

Hens who are internally laying will not produce an egg for you anymore. I had only one who did after a bloating period and draining, one time she laid after seeming to recover, but she bloated again and again and eventually died (Ivy). Her oviduct was not completely blocked off, though.

 

[speckledhen]

Lot's of vets prescribe it.

I t banned for use in poultry in the USA and most other countries.

I thought it was banned here, but yet, vets still prescribe it. Hmm. I know we use off-label stuff on our birds, but we can't buy Baytril ourselves like we can penicillin injectible.

 

[casportpony]

I thought it was banned here, but yet, vets still prescribe it. Hmm. I know we use off-label stuff on our birds, but we can't buy Baytril ourselves like we can penicillin injectible.

It's not supposed to be used off label in any food animal. I think it's labeled for a one day treatment in cattle, so even in cattle it can't be used in a way that's not shown on the label.

Technically, I think a vet could get in trouble if they got caught prescribing it for any type of poultry, even pet poultry.

Getting it is dead easy though, just google baytril for birds or Enfloxil.

 

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

You've described basically two different things, to help folks not familiar with all this. Egg binding makes a hen walk like a penguin and she still has a chance to pass the egg. It can kill a hen if it isn't removed somehow or cause a prolapse from straining. It will not necessarily cause an infection because it really either kills the hen or you get it out, though if it breaks inside, it may start infection. But, you know it's happened and give antibiotics to stave it off, hopefully.

Internal laying and/or egg yolk peritonitis is completely different. The eggs are either dropped into the abdomen so they cannot be laid or they are basically backed up into the oviduct, causing an ecoli infection and blocking the tract off. Ecoli infections of the oviduct (salpingitis) can be caused by a loose cloaca that sucks feces back into the oviduct, many times in older hens. But, egg binding can usually be remedied by getting that egg out if it's close enough to the end and not just completely stuck sideways.

You have a chance to fix egg binding. You do not have a chance to fix internal laying with anything other than a hysterectomy, which she probably won't survive because by the time you know what's going on, or suspect it, it's far advanced.

Hens who are internally laying will not produce an egg for you anymore. I had only one who did after a bloating period and draining, one time she laid after seeming to recover, but she bloated again and again and eventually died (Ivy). Her oviduct was not completely blocked off, though.

Thanks for the clarification! My chicken definently had an infection of some sort as her belly was very hot and bloated for the past couple of days. I cant imagine she didnt have an infection with all that heat. She seems to be doing better since the antibiotic injections (breathing better but still somewhat heavy and heat has gone way down on abdomen). She is also still doing her shuffle and looks like she's trying to pass something. Since Wednesday (possibly before) she has only once passed what looked like a bloody egg "membrane", cooked yolk piece, and feces (Friday after vet). All other excrements have been fecal matter. There was nothing felt before the vet visit near the vent up the rectum. Do you think it would be worth doing another exam to feel if something is there or possible another soak in Epsom salts? I wonder if an egg did break inside her, she got an infection, passed the contents, and has another egg bound? I will look more into egg binding.

 

[speckledhen]

It's not supposed to be used off label in any food animal. I think it's labeled for a one day treatment in cattle, so even in cattle it can't be used in a way that's not shown on the label.

Technically, I think a vet could get in trouble if they got caught prescribing it for any type of poultry, even pet poultry.

Getting it is dead easy though, just google baytril for birds or Enfloxil.

I didn't mean the Baytril was technically off-label, bad choice of words, I meant that we are giving out birds stuff they're not supposed to be getting. I know it was used in poultry until it was banned for poultry. Apparently, though, it's still in use because, well, it works.

I did search for it online and got your post on it, of course. Always helpful, thanks, Kathy. Of course, you need a vet's prescription, or you're supposed to get one. Did you mean that the system can be circumvented depending on where you order it? We ought to be able to get the water soluble meds still-that made me really angry, though I don't give antibiotics for stuff as a rule. I hate that they'll give cops meds to treat overdoses, like a cop can assess an overdose and administer medication to a human being, but we can't give our chickens a medication. That makes zero sense to me.