Drained ascites fluid and now in respiratory distress

[TwoCrows]

I might also suggest using some aspirin on her to prevent a stroke. If the left heart valve is effected, the heart leaks fluid into the body cavities, heart cavity and abdomen. In this condition many times the heart is fibrillating and this sends out blood clots that will cause stroke. Stokes can be minor like a droopy wing or a lost voice, or they can be very damaging with losing the use of legs or even organs. You might offer up a 1/2 a baby aspirin every other day to help keep the blood thin. I have also had great luck with the herb Hawthorn. It helps to lower blood pressure in hens, helps to tone the heart valves and will help dry up the belly fluid over time.

As SpeckledHen has mentioned, birds with heart conditions, especially those with belly fluid, can't be helped and will pass on eventually. But you can help them along the way with draining, aspirin and even Hawthorn. If only the right heart valve is effected, generally there is no leakage, but you can still hear the flapping heart valves. I have had great success with using Hawthorn in these types and even have an old hen right now that after 4 months treatment on Hawthorn she is actually back to laying and her heart valves are completely quiet. She did have a tiny bit of fluid in her belly this past winter and I never did a draining on her. She is back to great health, as healthy as she can be at her age with her heart condition. She still breathes a bit fast, but nothing life threatening and her valves are again quiet.

 

[speckledhen]

I might also suggest using some aspirin on her to prevent a stroke. If the left heart valve is effected, the heart leaks fluid into the body cavities, heart cavity and abdomen. In this condition many times the heart is fibrillating and this sends out blood clots that will cause stroke. Stokes can be minor like a droopy wing or a lost voice, or they can be very damaging with losing the use of legs or even organs. You might offer up a 1/2 a baby aspirin every other day to help keep the blood thin. I have also had great luck with the herb Hawthorn. It helps to lower blood pressure in hens, helps to tone the heart valves and will help dry up the belly fluid over time.

As SpeckledHen has mentioned, birds with heart conditions, especially those with belly fluid, can't be helped and will pass on eventually. But you can help them along the way with draining, aspirin and even Hawthorn. If only the right heart valve is effected, generally there is no leakage, but you can still hear the flapping heart valves. I have had great success with using Hawthorn in these types and even have an old hen right now that after 4 months treatment on Hawthorn she is actually back to laying and her heart valves are completely quiet. She did have a tiny bit of fluid in her belly this past winter and I never did a draining on her. She is back to great health, as healthy as she can be at her age with her heart condition. She still breathes a bit fast, but nothing life threatening and her valves are again quiet.

Good to know about Hawthorn.

I have had only a couple of hens with bloaty bellies come back on their own and lay again with no intervention from me other than one round of penicillin at the outset-sometimes I do that, mostly I don't anymore since it rarely had much effect. Sometimes, depending on what the cause is (I had no idea, no way to really know), their bodies will take care of things on its own. That is the exception rather than the rule, of course.

 

[TwoCrows]

Good to know about Hawthorn.

I have had only a couple of hens with bloaty bellies come back on their own and lay again with no intervention from me other than one round of penicillin at the outset-sometimes I do that, mostly I don't anymore since it rarely had much effect. Sometimes, depending on what the cause is (I had no idea, no way to really know), their bodies will take care of things on its own. That is the exception rather than the rule, of course.

I have noticed if there isn't a lot of fluid on the belly, I mean just not enough to drain, many times the bird will reabsorb it over time. Hawthorn is a wonderful herb to use for heart failure. It is also a natural blood pressure reducer. I have even used it on myself and can atest it works! LOL It is recommended in humans with heart failure as an addition to their regular heart meds. Hawthorn is a very safe herb and can be used on most animals that are suffering from heart disease. Hawthorn will instantly lower the blood pressure, however it takes a few months of use to strengthen the heart and can even heal slight cases of bad valves. It is also a slight diuretic. Diuretics can be hard on the heart if powerful enough, but Hawthorn is gentle enough not to strain it. But yes, I would rather not intervene if I don't have too, especially with these drainings. If the bird only has a slight case of water on the belly and it stems from a heart condition, I head for the Hawthorn. Over a few weeks to a month's time can dry the belly right up and heal the heart. This is the stuff I use....

https://www.amazon.com/Solaray-Hawt...1-1&keywords=solaray+hawthorn+special+formula

It has a mixture of other heart herbs that work in conjunction with the Hawthorn. I found that plain Hawthorn is not as effective as this blend. You CAN feed them straight Hawthorn berries right from the bush if you have one of these plants in your yard. I am not sure of the amount of berries they should eat, however I was giving my heart patients a half a capsule of this blend of herbs in the morning and the other half at night. (mixed in Gerber baby food and given orally down the throat). After several months their respirations reduced from 60 per min down to 40 per min. (the average respirations for a chicken is 15-38) 60 is heart busting. LOL My most effected birds are now closer to 38 per min. The loud clacking valves have stopped, no more fluttering heard as well. And they are ALL back to laying as well.

(NEVER use well water on your flock!

OMG....I couldn't figure out WHY my flocks of quail AND chickens were all turning up with heart disease, arterial hypertension and heart failure!!! OMG...they were dropping like flies from heart failure, salt poisoning, swollen intestines from salt poisoning, massive strokes, oh the water bellies!!!.... HOLY CROW!! It wasn't until I figured this out this past winter and was able to get a handle on it. I now use pure clean water, got their hearts as healed as I could and the die offs have THANKFULLY stopped!! LESSON LEARNED!!!)

ALL of the US has hard water to some degree. Surface water drips through the Earths Limestone, picks up TONS of salts and minerals. You use it on your flock and BAM...you are poisoning them with salt and minerals. No matter how clean, clear and good your water tastes, (ours is perfect looking and tasting) DO NOT use your well water!! Treated city water or your own home treatment system or purchase clean RO or Distilled. Stay AWAY from well water!!

 

[dana0710]

Thank you guys so, so much for the advice! We will definitley drain less fluid next time. This was our first try. She was not doing the gurgling choking while we did the procedure, but started almost immediately after. I'm hoping this will be enough to keep her comfortable for a while. She was walking around this morning and I heard no strange noises. I was terrified last night. I will keep in mind everything you have taught me and will check into the asprin and/or hawthorn.

I feel fairly confident that she has EYP, which started all of this with her bad spell a few months ago. I saw some floating matter in the ascites fluid that was probably egg. I know that this will eventually kill her, but if we can treat her and she has a quality life and continues to be a happy chicken, then we will keep her. As soon as I feel that we are doing more harm that good or that she is just in too much pain or too tired, we will take care of it.

I just can't stand to think about an animal, who is depending on me for their well-being, suffering unnecessarily.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you guys so, so much for the advice! We will definitley drain less fluid next time. This was our first try. She was not doing the gurgling choking while we did the procedure, but started almost immediately after. I'm hoping this will be enough to keep her comfortable for a while. She was walking around this morning and I heard no strange noises. I was terrified last night. I will keep in mind everything you have taught me and will check into the asprin and/or hawthorn.

I feel fairly confident that she has EYP, which started all of this with her bad spell a few months ago. I saw some floating matter in the ascites fluid that was probably egg. I know that this will eventually kill her, but if we can treat her and she has a quality life and continues to be a happy chicken, then we will keep her. As soon as I feel that we are doing more harm that good or that she is just in too much pain or too tired, we will take care of it.

I just can't stand to think about an animal, who is depending on me for their well-being, suffering unnecessarily.

If the fluid is straw colored, generally this is standard heart failure. If the fluid is clear/whitish and cloudy and or you see yolk like material in the fluid, this is internal laying. If the fluid is green, fluid is leaking from the liver into the abdomen...Liver disease.

SOMETIMES you can get an internal layer on antibiotics and stop the internal laying. SOMETIMES. Especially if you catch it early enough. However most of them never stop releasing the yolks and they continue on with the E.coli infections. Some internal layers stem from an internal infection in the oviduct and antibiotics can sometimes heal these infections. If she had some sort of injury or is developing reproductive cancer, you won't be able to stop this from happening.

Just keep her as comfortable as possible with light drainings where she will drain on her own. Use antibiotics, try the hawthorn if she continues to fill her belly and hope for the best. I recently put down an internal layer that just stopped responding to antibiotics. At first she did, but the yolks obviously kept coming.

I am so sorry about your girl.

Do the best you can with her. Its all we can do.

 

[casportpony]

Regarding water:
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/general/water.html

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

And this:
http://www.forparrots.com/2013/02/02/water-simply-perfect/

Probably best to have well or tap water tested on a regular basis.

-Kathy

 

[TwoCrows]

And this:
http://www.forparrots.com/2013/02/02/water-simply-perfect/

Probably best to have well or tap water tested on a regular basis.

-Kathy

I lived and I learned.... and never again with the well water. UGH.

Thanks for posting these links Kathy!! Hopefully someone else sees these before doing what I did!!

 

[speckledhen]

..........
(NEVER use well water on your flock!

OMG....I couldn't figure out WHY my flocks of quail AND chickens were all turning up with heart disease, arterial hypertension and heart failure!!! OMG...they were dropping like flies from heart failure, salt poisoning, swollen intestines from salt poisoning, massive strokes, oh the water bellies!!!.... HOLY CROW!! It wasn't until I figured this out this past winter and was able to get a handle on it. I now use pure clean water, got their hearts as healed as I could and the die offs have THANKFULLY stopped!! LESSON LEARNED!!!)

ALL of the US has hard water to some degree. Surface water drips through the Earths Limestone, picks up TONS of salts and minerals. You use it on your flock and BAM...you are poisoning them with salt and minerals. No matter how clean, clear and good your water tastes, (ours is perfect looking and tasting) DO NOT use your well water!! Treated city water or your own home treatment system or purchase clean RO or Distilled. Stay AWAY from well water!!

Sorry, we have well water, tested and very good well water. The only filter we have on the well system is a sediment filter to save the electric water heater from being gunked up. I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone that not all well water is equal. I would respectfully disagree with that blanket statement, Leyla. I've never heard that recommendation before now from anyone.

We drink our well water (400 ft deep well) exclusively and the chickens drink it and there is NO way I'm buying water for over 30 chickens as much as they drink-I'd be broke in no time. There is no other option here and chickens have been drinking well water for centuries, though I realize our environment is not the same as it was 100 years ago.

It's just plain not feasible to buy bottled water for chickens-we don't even buy it for ourselves, much less livestock. Treated city water is far worse for us, IMO, and the birds than the water we have now, but then, we have no access to city water anyway. I remember how awful it tasted at the last place we lived on city water, ick. This way they are not ingesting chlorine, recycled sewage and whatever other nasty stuff that's in city water, whatever makes it taste so bad. If we drink this water, they will drink this water. You know how much lead has been found in city water all over the country recently, right? That sure wasn't safe to drink for anyone.

 

[casportpony]

There are kits you can buy to test water at home, and there are labs you can send to. When DH returns, I'll ask him for the info and post it.

-Kathy