Drug test for welfare recipients

[chickened]

Scared of pot? come on, do you really think I am afraid of pot? Are you currently stoned? I do not like the way people act when on it and I most certainly do not want to be around them and the same for drunks. I do not go to bars, smoke pot or do other drugs for my own reasons and I raise my kids to the same higher standard. When I see someone who has suffered the effects of drug use I use that as a tool to teach my boys what happens when they get hooked on drugs. Sure some people can use drugs for a long time and function in society but that is not the norm and the mental effects are not really known like moodiness and working with someone that is a bear when they are not stoned.

Are you saying that the future of this country(children) is not worth the cost of keeping it drug free? Maybe we are in trouble.

 

[cupman]

People fear what they don't understand.

I sort of agree with you actually. You see it every now and again the couple who make the 5 o clock news. Dreadlocks, eye lids half way shut, standing there for a mug shot because they blew smoke in their child's face to calm it down so it would stop crying. One timeless truth is there are idiots everywhere. But think about individual responsibility. It's a lot like drinking. Some people can have a glass of whiskey and enjoy the superbowl and others need a glass of whiskey in the morning to get their hands to stop shaking. Personality types, family history, it all depends.

Every week at school there is someone trying to gather signatures to put legalization on the ballot. I don't sign them because I think it's all a joke. I don't campaign for legalization and I don't really care. What I do care about is all the money dumped into fighting this particular activity. We could turn a money sink into a money surplus but social acceptance is not quite there.

 

[chickened]

If I thought my taxes would actually go down with legalization of pot I might agree with you.

I experimented with pot 30 years ago when I was 18 and I figured out then it was a dead end and at about 23 I figured out the same about alcohol. The good or bad philosophy about legalizing pot is so lopsided in my reasoning it hardly deserves mention. I have time and experience that shows me I made the right decision and the temptation is not even a passing thought, I have too much going on in life to go that direction. My biggest issue with legalizing it is that I will be paying for it for those that think they need it. Look at what they want me to pay for now, the battle over contraception is just heating up, there are folks that want it covered by insurance and those same folks want it paid for with tax dollars. Everything we legalize becomes a right to the poor.

 

[zazouse]

If I thought my taxes would actually go down with legalization of pot I might agree with you.

I experimented with pot 30 years ago when I was 18 and I figured out then it was a dead end and at about 23 I figured out the same about alcohol. The good or bad philosophy about legalizing pot is so lopsided in my reasoning it hardly deserves mention. I have time and experience that shows me I made the right decision and the temptation is not even a passing thought, I have too much going on in life to go that direction. My biggest issue with legalizing it is that I will be paying for it for those that think they need it. Look at what they want me to pay for now, the battle over contraception is just heating up, there are folks that want it covered by insurance and those same folks want it paid for with tax dollars. Everything we legalize becomes a right to the poor.

Well said.

 

[cupman]

My only problem with your comment is that you feel if it was legalized your tax dollars would go to poor people who just wanted to sit around getting high. You are confusing complete legalization with medical legalization. If it was legal your tax money wouldn't go to the poor(or women) so don't worry. I mean, I don't pay taxes so people can smoke cigarettes, so why would marijuana be any different?

We're just fundamentally different. You are an old timer set in your ways and I'm young with an open mind. It's your right as an American to vote for whatever you want for whatever reason you want. I guess I don't understand you. To read a post from RN catlvr and your only response was to get defensive and post more snide jabs at her. It's shameless.

 

[chickened]

Rich people can afford pot ...easy peasy on that one. Why do you assume the poor are incapable of bettering themslves anyways?

When people abuse welfare money to buy cigarettes you are paying for it. You also pay for it's ill effects when you buy insurance and when that is taxpayer funded you will be paying for that also.

I think our differences are not so much fundamentally different as the fact that I am 48 and have experience in life and you by virtue have less of that. It sound just a ridiculous for you to tell me something you have no experience in as it would sound if I would tell someone that is 70 how the world works. You have no respect for your elders that is the only thing I see that really stumbles you, and you are not alone I was that way also.

As for Catlvr she opened that can of worms and put herself in with the wolves.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t use marijuana or any hard drug, though I admit to occasionally having a drink of alcohol. When I have one beer when I eat out, my wife drives us home although I am well under the legal limit. If she wants a beer, I drive us home. I don’t even like to use painkillers when I am in pain.

I favor legalizing marijuana. I do not favor legalizing the hard drugs. My reasoning:

Prohibition did not work for alcohol. It is not working for marijuana. All it does is create a very profitable illegal enterprise. I don’t blame the growers, smugglers, or sellers nearly as much as the users. There will always be someone willing to break the law to provide goods or services if someone is going to use it and is willing to spend money on it.

I’m not naïve enough to think legalizing marijuana will break the Mexican drug cartels. There are plenty of other illicit drugs (which I think should remain illegal) to pay for their bullets they use to kill innocent by-standers, but legalizing marijuana and setting taxes on it at a level that makes legal marijuana cheaper than smuggled marijuana would take a lot of money away from them.

I’m not that hung up on it being a gateway drug. I knew a whole lot of people that used pot when they were young that went on to have very productive lives, just like I knew and still know people that occasionally take a drink of alcohol yet are not alcoholics. I think some people are unable to handle alcohol or drugs and just can’t control themselves in any case. Marijuana can take away initiative and impair responsibility, but I think these people are going to be burdens and dangers to society in any case. They’ll find another way.

I do believe marijuana impairs the senses. I was a teenager in the 60’s. I was in the army in the early 70’s. I saw a whole lot of people under the influence of marijuana. Even in the army, where my life could depend on others, there were some users I would trust because they did not use it when “active” and they were generally competent people. I’d have trusted some of the boozers the same way. There were some people that I would not have trusted just because they were incompetent, whether they were high or drunk or sober. I will admit I saw a correlation between hard drug users and incompetence, but I really did not see that with the recreational marijuana users.

I’m convinced it impairs the senses. But so does alcohol. Treat marijuana like alcohol. Devise a test to determine how much is in the system and set legal limits for driving. I’m not at all comfortable with the thought that stoned people are driving around. This is for general public type of things. Companies can set their own tighter limits for their employees. I’m not suggesting government tell private companies how to handle this internally or give any rights or job protection to users.

I think that marijuana can have a medical use. But just like a lot of other prescription drugs, it can be abused. I’m not going to suggest we stop selling all drugs or glue that some people abuse. I don’t see that as a valid argument any more than banning all cars because some people run red lights. You try to protect the public from the abusers, not punish the public in general.

I don’t like marijuana being around but it is not just going to go away. We have to find a way to manage it and minimize the damage it causes. To me, marijuana is not a “victimless” crime. It causes damage and not just to the users. I don’t think prohibition is the way to do that. It is not working.

 

[cupman]

I don't really understand how you took my message as a way to say the poor can't better themselves. I think poverty is the most important issue in politics today, not Iran, not Afghanistan, not whether Obama is a socialist.

I agree with you, I'm only 25 years old and you've been on this planet twice as long. I think we are mostly all a product of our environment. Like the reason you are a Christian instead of a Muslim. You were born to a Christian family. I was born to an atheist/Catholic split but all in all a liberal family. I'm sure that has shaped my values but also the younger generation has been very liberal on their social views. I think you are confusing my lack of respect for you as a lack of respect for my elders in general. Individuals such as Capvin, a man who risked his life in Vietnam fighting an unpopular war, turned into a federal lawyer and paid his dues, I have great respect for. Retired in Florida raising chickens? doesn't sound so bad.

I just think you have a respect issue, chickened. Like, for example, does your wife have to tell you a thousand times to keep your behavior relaxed before she takes you to a family function? It would seem so but I know nothing of your life and that's purely speculative. You are a present voice at BYC and I really think you would garner more support and respect if you could just admit that occasionally you are wrong and often times out of line.

 

[cupman]

Good post, Ridgerunner, you have a way about you to post and not get caught up in the controversy. I do agree with you about marijuana users driving being a problem. It doesn't impair you as much as alcohol but if you are operating 3,000 pounds of steel you shouldn't have a single chemical impairing you one bit. The problem is the ability to field test marijuana users. Police and scientists and whoever have been trying for years to find a way to prove someone is high on marijuana while driving. I know of two individuals who have gotten DUI's for marijuana and both of them admitted it to the police. It's a hard drug to track, even if the police can smell it the users can normally snap out of it to perform a field sobriety test. The issue is before they "snap out of it" who knows what damage they can cause.

 

[redhen]

So if they legalize pot how will they monitor driving under the influence?
With alcohol they give you a breathalizer or blood draw..
So if someone gets stoned out of their gourd...and then gets behind the wheel and causes an accident and kills your kid..then what?
If pot is legal, its will already be in your urine and blood...and you could easily lie and say that you weren't stoned at the time of the accident...no proof,.. and no justice for the dead kid...