Dubbing questions.

[yawningreyhound]

Don't know if anyone is still reading this, but I determined the cause of my hen's frostbite was because she dipped her head repeatedly in the water to drink, her wattle was wet, and it was 18 degrees below zero most of the day and they were all out in the dry, covered, tarped-for-wind run with lots of wind breaks and hiding spots and deep dry straw and nice dry dirt... It was bound to freeze with 18 below. Maybe if I had locked them inside the whole day and turned on the heat lamp, I would've avoided it, too. I learn something every darn day about these birds.

The combs are another story.....I can't speak to them.

But my experience taught me that wet is the cause of the frostbite in my hen.

I have ordered a drip system. This will never happen again due to a wet wattle!

AND I found a no-peck-ointment as since I've been watching this bird so diligently and having to treat her 3 times a day, I notice that the other birds are attracted to her PINK tailless tail and when she gets a fuzz feather, they peck it out....my neighbor told me the miracle of this stuff and gave me her bottle.

So now chickie has white wattles (her infection prevention topical for the frostbite...which the other birds also noticed right away!!!! I took their mind off her with mealworms until it absorbed) and a dark purple tail. I hope she's enjoying her NSAIDS the vet put her on, too!

She's stylin'!

 

[centrarchid]

I have nearly a dozen stags and even some hens dealing with frost-bite and it is not drinking water related. Mine have very little protection from wind except from direct. The frostbite seems to happen mostly during day even though is warmer then as that is when birds expose heads and have a habit of getting away from cover provided. When your birds get frostbite in combs, it should not be related to getting wet from drinking as water should not touching comb during drinking process.

I even had a bird kept in garage get frostbite. The garage had no wind and humidity was fine. He simply had too much comb exposed when temperature was in middle teens minus. He would have faired better is he had a warm place to stand.


Find out how your drip waterer operates at low temperature. Versions I am familiar with are designed for operation in climate controlled areas where temperature is kept above freezing.

 

[yawningreyhound]

yeah, the vulnerable part will be the water tube, but we're going to heat tape wrap that...hopefully the insulated cooler will take care of itself. i'll still bring it in nightly until we're done with our stupid weather this season. seems there's just no perfect watering system for all temps! someone should invent it.

 

[abenardini]

I am newer to keeping poultry but one aspect of chicken behavior I have learned from is the chicken habit of concealing pain or discomfort. This is a basic defense mechanism to not appear weak to other bird peers or predators. I would argue it is impossible to judge whether or not the bird is "worse for wear" or simply has the ability to hide the fact it is in agonising pain.

When I keep pets or animals for any reason, it is my utmost goal to rest them humanely as possible. My husband and I have spent quite a few dollars on providing adequate housing, protection from elements, and high-quality feed when the birds aren't running around on our 40 acres. I also agree buying poultry via internet and having said birds shipped is also not Ideal.

 

[Mrs. K]

@ abenardini - I humbly and respectfully disagree with your statement that it is impossible to judge if an animal is worse for wear.

If an animal does not lose weight, continues eating, drinking and walking. That animal is all right. I myself have had some dilly of wounds, but they did heal right up, and did not stop me or endanger my life. I took care of them, they were tender, but not life threatening.

Most living things have some type of damage while living, and most of the time it is not life threatening.

Some people are very afraid of pain, and are very careful not to inflict it. That is alright, we all do things differently. Some people get tattoos, or body piercing that I would not...

Mrs K

 

[abenardini]

I too must disagree. There is no possible method to gauge a pain level of an animal easily.

For example, I underwent a complex drawn out surgery. I woke up in the midst of the procedure. I too, am eating, drinking, or otherwise functional. Am I worse for wear? I don't know. Pain is pain. Inflicting it unnecessarily seems ridiculous and selfish at best. If you cannot provide a safe, warm place for animals, then it is my humble opinion the person shouldn't opt to keep them.

Humans often try to justify their actions upon other creatures as just or humane, when in fact other alternatives exist.
Think about it...honestly...in order for you to thrive, I need to cut off your fingers so you don't get frostbite. Now, if you were kept in a warmer climate or enclosure, this could be absolutely avoided.

Human selfishness.

 

[abenardini]

I forgot to add - as hopeful as I am about this, I doubt chickens would want body piercings or tatoos. Just saying.

 

[sueiris]

what do people use to stop the bleeding when dubbing?

 

[yawningreyhound]

As a Vet Tech, I was interested in this when my hen got frostbitten and did some research on it (afer I researched it, we decided to treat for pain and prevent infection, frostbitten area dried into a scab and fell off 21 days later).

I found an interesting entry in Wiki re dubbing:

In practice, an anesthetic is rarely used during dubbing and as a consequence, the RSPCA Australia is opposed to dubbing on poultry intended to be exhibited at shows, and describes the practice as a cause of pain and distress.[6] The comb and wattles function in thermoregulation; blood circulating from the comb and the wattles helps the bird lose heat during hot weather. The comb is also used in mate-assessment in some poultry species.[7] Dubbing would interfere with both these functions of the comb and wattles.
In commercial laying hens, those dubbed at hatching exhibit few effects on egg production but the older the birds are when dubbed, the greater the negative effects of dubbing.[8]
In the UK, the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) concludes "that removal of the comb offers no welfare advantages to offset the disturbance caused by the procedure and believe the practice should be phased out."[9] The Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) writes: "Removal of the comb offers few, if any, welfare advantages in comparison with the disturbance and pain likely to be caused and should be avoided."[10] The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 (Schedule 3 Amendment) Order 1988 (SI 1988 No. 526) permits only a veterinary surgeon to remove the combs of a domestic fowl which has reached the age of 72 hours.
In New Zealand, the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee stated in 2002 they were "working towards a strategy to prevent this practice."[11]
In 2010, the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) reviewed scientific evidence and concluded "that no mutilation with an effect on welfare as severe as those resulting from cutting off toes or dubbing the comb should be carried out unless justified by evidence for a substantial and unavoidable level of poor welfare in the birds themselves and other birds."[12]

 

[centrarchid]

When comes to frost bite issues, birds held in thermally neutral environs like used for commercial flocks do not benefit from dubbing. Birds outside during harsh winter months are another story. That being said I do not like dubbing for purely aesthetic reasons.