d'Uccle color genetics

[Matthew86]

how does that work out? wouldnt a lavender over a millie produce solid black? were there some genes hiding in them (not hatchery stock?) right now in my pattern pen i have blue millie, millie and GN hens covered by a porcelain, black mottled and a lavender roo - i was expecting to easily isolate the chicks from the lavender or the mottled at birth expecting them (as per chicken calculator) to be black or blue (whereas the offspring of the porcelain would be brownish). is this not going to be how it is?

oh and i DID find a site with photos of B/B/S duccles.....it's in Australia....
--the first one is even splash for the millie pattern!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.653445054675967.1073741884.507221085965032&type=3

lavender is recessive and the buff in the millies is dominant. the 2 don't mix and you will get varies in the offspring. any bird x lavender will equal the original bird split for lavender

 

[Matthew86]

No lavendar aka porcelain will not show with only one lav. Crossing lav to any Dom color should make X split to porcelain.

The chicken calculator goes screwy with lavs and self blues on a lot of breeds.

So to make more Lavs when you only have on Lav hen or roo the crossing would go as follows:

I'm using MF
MF X lav = MF split to lav
MF split to lav X lav = 50% lav 50% MF split to lav
lav X lav = 100% lav

So all:
F1 chicks would all look MF
F2 chicks would be half looking Porcelain and half looking MF
F3 would all look like Porcelain

This is the method i would have to use to make more porcelains for myself as i only have one porcelain Roo. It makes for a very small gene pool though because you are inbreeding back to dad with his own kids.

lavender and porcelain aren't the same. lavender is the gene and porcelain is a millie with 2 copies of lavender which dilutes black to lavender and buff to creme.

MF x lav + buff columbian split for lavender. it cant be a millie unless both parents have the mottling gene. no f1s would look millie.

to make porcelain using MF x lavender...

1)MF x lav = buff columbian split for lavender and mottled.
2)buff columbian split x buff columbian split = millie, millie split for lavender,buff columbian, bc split for lavender and mottled, isabel columbian, isabel split for mottled, porcelain.

 

[Bergere]

I guess I'm dense. The color issues confuse me badly. I know I need to learn them, but WOW. I am a hands-on learner, empirical in nature, so I know that's part of my problem with color charts...

One issue I have with understanding genetics is this:
Is the current color the only thing that matters for those string of letters? Don't the parent's & even grandparent's colors play a role in the combinations?

For example:

A porcelain roo, when crossed with my lavender hens, created offspring that feathered slowly & badly, and they were seriously lacking in vigor. Of 8, only one reached adulthood and she looks like a pure lavender. When bred back to the porcelain she seems to have thrown a couple of blue milles. The chicks are 2 weeks old so far, but are coming in pale buff with a little blue trim.

I bred the lavender hens to the porcelain in order to better understand the lavender gene, but the frailty of the chicks was confusing for me. I have NEVER lost so many chicks before! The adults were from totally unrelated stock. 7 of 8 chicks feathered out as lavenders, with no porcelain qualities at all, before 6 of the 7 dying off around 4 weeks old. The 8th chick was totally black, which really excited me, but was the frailest of all and the first to die (around 3 weeks old). I really wanted that black chick, and have no idea why it died. I followed all the same methods I used and still use for all my chicks with almost no losses. There was no sign of trouble, other than being VERY slow to feather in. One day fine, the next day gone.

Could the 'triple dose' of lavender gene have caused the frailty issues? And how did that pure black chick come into play? I thought if anything the chicks should be mottled, not solid & even in color...

I used a Lavender Rooster with gold leakage, to Porcelain hens... and so far, the chicks are the first to hatch out and very robust.

Now if you breed a blue to a lavender, you will have health issues.

 

[paris_r]

any one want to weigh in on these? dads are brow reds and moms could be golden neck, white or black mottled (least likely)

they appear to be splash but a few have dark skin spots associated with the feather colour.

 

[nothingbutbirds]

I'm not great with the genetics, so I might have a simple question to answer, but I'm very puzzled. I would extremely appreciate it if someone could answer...but to get on with it, I bred Splash to Mille Fleur and got Mille Fleurs, Splash, and Golden Neck-which I was expecting. But four birds came out of the cross that I wasn't expecting, unfortunately my better looking of the two roosters died over the winter, but I have a trio left of what I thought were Mille Fleur that didn't develope their mottling yet. Well, it's been two years and there's not a drop of white on them. Am I missing something that is easily explained, or shouldn't this happpen? Or maybe they just need more time to get their spots? I'm rather confused, and I thank anyone who can help me out.

 

[paris_r]

I'm not great with the genetics, so I might have a simple question to answer, but I'm very puzzled. I would extremely appreciate it if someone could answer...but to get on with it, I bred Splash to Mille Fleur and got Mille Fleurs, Splash, and Golden Neck-which I was expecting. But four birds came out of the cross that I wasn't expecting, unfortunately my better looking of the two roosters died over the winter, but I have a trio left of what I thought were Mille Fleur that didn't develope their mottling yet. Well, it's been two years and there's not a drop of white on them. Am I missing something that is easily explained, or shouldn't this happpen? Or maybe they just need more time to get their spots? I'm rather confused, and I thank anyone who can help me out.

when you say splash what do you mean-do you have a photo? the mottling gene is recessive -so one would expect all of yours to have white tips (and you should have gotten blue millies too)-unless the splash is the issue. which are hens and which are roosters? in the US most suppliers use the 'splash' gene to create the golden necks -the look exactly like the poor quality mille fleurs they sell with most the black replaced by additional white. i have noticed in my splashes (white with spots) a difference at hatching of yellow vs white fluff -which says to me there are 2 white genes at work there, that may produce different end results. i have not followed them up (the markings wore off too fast) as they mature because i get what look like 2 different splash patterns, one of minimal black spotting on a solid white body and the other looking broken with bars looking like faded wood grain.

 

[nothingbutbirds]

when you say splash what do you mean-do you have a photo? the mottling gene is recessive -so one would expect all of yours to have white tips (and you should have gotten blue millies too)-unless the splash is the issue. which are hens and which are roosters? in the US most suppliers use the 'splash' gene to create the golden necks -the look exactly like the poor quality mille fleurs they sell with most the black replaced by additional white. i have noticed in my splashes (white with spots) a difference at hatching of yellow vs white fluff -which says to me there are 2 white genes at work there, that may produce different end results. i have not followed them up (the markings wore off too fast) as they mature because i get what look like 2 different splash patterns, one of minimal black spotting on a solid white body and the other looking broken with bars looking like faded wood grain.

My splash vary in color, I have some that are white with black and blue mixed throughout the feathers, mostly only appearing on one side of the feather in a stripe-like formation, then I have some that show no markings at all, I have one hen who appears to be grey with white spots, but has black specks that cover entire feathers.I don't know if that answered your question as to what I mean by splash, if not I can give it another go if you let me.Aha.
It was Mille Fleur roosters over splash hens.
Could it be that I haven't gotten any Blue Mille Fleurs because I only hatched around fifteen chicks? I didn't have enough pens at the time when I first hatched them, so I only set a small batch.
I have pictures, getting them to upload is a whole different story though, ugh..

 

[paris_r]

My splash vary in color, I have some that are white with black and blue mixed throughout the feathers, mostly only appearing on one side of the feather in a stripe-like formation, then I have some that show no markings at all, I have one hen who appears to be grey with white spots, but has black specks that cover entire feathers.I don't know if that answered your question as to what I mean by splash, if not I can give it another go if you let me.Aha.
It was Mille Fleur roosters over splash hens.
Could it be that I haven't gotten any Blue Mille Fleurs because I only hatched around fifteen chicks? I didn't have enough pens at the time when I first hatched them, so I only set a small batch.
I have pictures, getting them to upload is a whole different story though, ugh..

wow those sound different than mine-especially the blue in the splash. it really sounds like your genetic wildcard has to be the splashes. according to a few other web pages the golden necks are 'aka'd splashes -which makes sense in the mottled/mille fleur spectrum, but once you have an actual splash (a real splash) then ??? photos would be nice, i want to compare them to mine. do you have any idea about the history/breeding to produce those splash hens? are they 'pure' duccles or bred back from introducing a colour?

 

[nothingbutbirds]

wow those sound different than mine-especially the blue in the splash. it really sounds like your genetic wildcard has to be the splashes. according to a few other web pages the golden necks are 'aka'd splashes -which makes sense in the mottled/mille fleur spectrum, but once you have an actual splash (a real splash) then ??? photos would be nice, i want to compare them to mine. do you have any idea about the history/breeding to produce those splash hens? are they 'pure' duccles or bred back from introducing a colour?

I am thinking that it's them who are throwing strange colors as well.
I'm not sure about the breeding that made them, I got six chicks in a contest on here and I would need to ask the person, that she got their parents off of. I think that's the only way I can figure out why the four odd colored birds came out of it. I'll message her now, and hope she replies at some point.
Since uploading on here is trouble for me, I would have to text or email them to you. Backyard chickens and my new phone don't quite agree. I'll try to upload a few more times though, just in case.

 

[nothingbutbirds]

Ha! I got it. This is the hen who is grey with white mottling and whole spotted feathers, the picture isn't great. I'll get better pictures tomorrow if you would like.