Duck Eggs - Preparing for the Worst

[U_Stormcrow]

Original thread here (with a few useless pictures from a couple days ago. Today is day 25 for my five duck eggs, the rotator tray came out yesterday, air vent is completely open, humidity is being maintained at 77 +/-2% pretty steadily. I've never seen movement in the eggs, my light source isn't bright enough to show more than a really dark (mostly) egg, and while I didn't have the foresight to mark the air bubbles, I don't think they have grown in the past few days. At a guess, something went wrong maybe a week ago. Or, I'm just panicked with first time anxieties.

Assuming I go till Saturday afternoon (day 30) and have no hatchings, and then do so outside, is there anything that can be determined by gently cracking them open and looking at the failed embryos? Or do I just thoroughly clean the incubator, resolve to "do better", and start over?? and when I do that, can I attempt to incubate duck and chicken eggs at the same time (yes, I know its a problem come lockdown time, which I can address by adding the chicken eggs after the duck eggs have had a week's head start) - or are the differing humidity needs of such importance that attempting to split the difference will result in high failure rates for both? If I have to incubate chicks one month, and ducks the next, I will, but like feeding All Flock, I was really hoping for a one size fits most solution...

any and all experienced advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MGG]

Original thread here (with a few useless pictures from a couple days ago. Today is day 25 for my ducks, the rotator tray came out yesterday, air vent is completely open, humidity is being maintained at 77 +/-2% pretty steadily. I've never seen movement in the eggs, my light source isn't bright enough to show more than a really dark (mostly) egg, and while I didn't have the foresight to mark the air bubble, I don't think its grown in the past few days. At a guess, something went wrong maybe a week ago. Or, I'm just panicked with first time anxieties.

Assuming I go till Saturday afternoon (day 30) and have no hatchings, and then do so outside, is there anything that can be determined by gently cracking them open and looking at the failed embryos? Or do I just thoroughly clean the incubator, resolve to "do better", and start over?? and when I do that, can I attempt to incubate duck and chicken eggs at the same time (yes, I know its a problem come lockdown time, which I can address by adding the chicken eggs after the duck eggs have had a week's head start) - or are the differing humidity needs of such importance that attempting to split the difference will result in high failure rates for both? If I have to incubate chicks one month, and ducks the next, I will, but like feeding All Flock, I was really hoping for a one size fits most solution...

any and all experienced advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hi!
The pics in that thread do not look good to me. Can you candle each egg in a dark room and post pics of them all? Only the third egg in your other thread looked maybe viable. Did you run this incubator with a calibrated thermometer and a salt tested hydrometer inside before you set the eggs for at least a couple days to be sure it was accurate? This is usually the problem in failed hatches. People assume the factory set is right, when in reality it is very rare to get an accurate pre-set incubator. I have never gotten one, and I don't know anyone who has. 77% is really high. It should be around 65-70% right now. Once you notice an external pip you can up it to 75%. You don't want the humidity above 70% before they internally pip, because then water will build up in the air cell, and when they internally pip all of that water will flood into the egg and drown the duckling.
Yes, I always "eggtopsy" my eggs. You can post pics of them. It is very helpful. It's important to see if all of the eggs from one side of the incubator are under developed, or if all of the embryos quit around the same time, or if there are deformities, etc. etc. I have learned lots from inspecting the failed eggs. It's sad, but important to do to avoid losing more next time.
Yes, you can incubate ducks and chickens together. I do this all the time. I've even incubated quail, guineas, ducks, chickens, and geese all together in the same incubator once. They all had different hatch dates, some varying several weeks. It was not planned, but I had many eggs dumped on me at once. Of all 28, 25 hatched. So incubating many species together is just fine in a pinch. My duck/chicken hatches are great. However, you do not want to brood them together. This is a recipe for disaster for the poor chicks. Ducks are rowdy and messy, and chicks get sick very easily when they're wet. Plus, ducks grow faster and will soon become bullies to the chicks.
Hopefully your ducklings hatch. Fingers crossed for you and your babies!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes, @MGG, I tested temp. accurate to w/i .1 degree based on two different thermometers which have proven reliable over the years - I make perfect roasts. Did not test humidity, have no reliable way to do so. Will back off my humidity some (it's been a problem all hatch, as I mentioned in the original thread) and see if I can't manage a brighter point source for photos.

I absolutely WILL take up your offer of assistance with the Eggtopsy, thank you.

I have had success brooding together* but I do so with a wire divider in the brooder, so they recognize each other as part of the same flock, but the ducks don't have the chance to throw their weight around. Ultimately, they will share the same run, and house (upstairs for the chickens, downstairs for the ducks) - I find it helps integration when they've been around each other all their little lives.

 

[MGG]

Yes, @MGG, I tested temp. accurate to w/i .1 degree based on two different thermometers which have proven reliable over the years - I make perfect roasts. Did not test humidity, have no reliable way to do so. Will back off my humidity some (it's been a problem all hatch, as I mentioned in the original thread) and see if I can't manage a brighter point source for photos.

I absolutely WILL take up your offer of assistance with the Eggtopsy, thank you.

I have had success brooding together* but I do so with a wire divider in the brooder, so they recognize each other as part of the same flock, but the ducks don't have the chance to throw their weight around. Ultimately, they will share the same run, and house (upstairs for the chickens, downstairs for the ducks) - I find it helps integration when they've been around each other all their little lives.

Ok, that's perfect! Ooh, yum! Lol!
Salt testing is pretty easy, I've seen a lot of good guides on here on how to do it. I'll read through your other thread, I just skimmed it the first time.
For candling, I've found that some phone flashlights work really good. Esp. IPhones usually.
Sure, no problem. I've always eggtopsied all of my eggs, so I know what I'm looking at more now. Sometimes it's hard to tell what happened, but sometimes it's more obvious.
Yes, a wire divider would work well! I've never tried it, but I'm sure it'll work just fine. I like using a kiddie pool for my ducks, but I wet brood mine so they're pretty dirty. For integration, them meeting through the divider all of their "babyhood" is definitely good. Will they be able to be around each other once they're adults? I just know that drakes can really beat up hens sometimes. Esp. if they have a pool... some drakes decide they want chicken hens for mates instead of duck hens, and that never ends well for the chicken.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

my current 7 ducks were raised in two batches with chickens using this method. The first batch was 4 pekins, 4 cornishX and 8 rainbows, growth rates very similar on the ducks and frankenchicken, not so much on the rainbows. Second batch was a month later, another 4 Pekins, plus comets, and dark brahma - much smaller and slower growing birds.

Flock is completely integrated now, plus some silver lace (a more recent addition), the ducks and some of the birds even free range together in mixed species groups, and the ducks themselves tend to divide into two groups of their own, with their own chicken "followers". No problems with the drakes (though I have too many, just waiting on freezer space) jumping any of my pullets, thankfully.

Thanks again for your kind offer.

 

[MGG]

my current 7 ducks were raised in two batches with chickens using this method. The first batch was 4 pekins, 4 cornishX and 8 rainbows, growth rates very similar on the ducks and frankenchicken, not so much on the rainbows. Second batch was a month later, another 4 Pekins, plus comets, and dark brahma - much smaller and slower growing birds.

Flock is completely integrated now, plus some silver lace (a more recent addition), the ducks and some of the birds even free range together in mixed species groups, and the ducks themselves tend to divide into two groups of their own, with their own chicken "followers". No problems with the drakes (though I have too many, just waiting on freezer space) jumping any of my pullets, thankfully.

Thanks again for your kind offer.

That's awesome! My drakes must just be buttheads. I've always had trouble with them and the hens. Or maybe I just have beautiful hens
Those CX are crazy. They grow so fast. I could definitely see them growing as fast as the ducks. I did raise one of my broody's 3 week old chick that got injured by one of the mean hens with some ducklings this past summer. She did fine, but she still thinks she's a duck, lol. She always hangs with the ducks instead of the chickens. Luckily the 3 ducklings I raised her with are all hens, or I would probably have a problem.
That's great yours get along. Maybe I'll raise some together next year and see if I can get them to be nicer to each other. My boys are just such stinkers. I need to get rid of some too.

 

[Trisseh]

I’ve had some eggs that couldn’t see into/thought were dead, that wound up having a tardy little baby in there, so if you’re going to open them up, treat them as though you’re doing an assisted hatch, working from the air cell, just in case. I just looked at your photos (I never get notifications for threads that I should! ) and the only one that looks like it might be at all viable is the last one, although impossible to tell on the first one - if anything it may just be a problem hatcher, with that little space to maneuver. The middle one looks dead for sure. If I’m having issues with air cells/humidity late in the game, I drop it as low as I can for a day or 2, then check again. I also don’t up the humidity until I have an internal pip, to give them as much time to expand that air cell as possible. I struggled with my homegrown eggs, since I was used to hatching older, shipped eggs that lost humidity readily - my homegrown eggs had super thick shells and didn’t lose weight anywhere near as fast as the shipped ones.

As @MGG already stated, you can start them together in the brooder, preferably with a divider, but they have very different requirements and do best if separated when brooding, at least with my set up. the chicken chicks really don’t like the sludge filled water dish. Lol.
My adult/juvenile flocks are only allowed free range time together while supervised, because I never trust a randy drake around chickens, no matter how well behaved they usually are. This time of year isn’t bad over here, the hormones are at a low level, but in the spring they’ll have separate free ranging time to minimize any problems. My one drake can’t be trusted with anything other than the duck hens, including my feet. The plumbing is very different and not safe for the chicken hens. if you keep no drakes, you can certainly make it work with them all living together.

*edit* you posted before I finished. Haha. So if your drakes are occupied with the duck hens, all the more power to you. If you notice anyone singling out a chicken hen, then that would be the time to maybe make some management changes.

my biggest caveat to any of this is: do not raise a duckling exclusively with chickens and then hope that it’ll behave itself as an adult, especially if it’s a drake! The amount of trouble I’ve had from this mule that was raised with a sebright, (not by me!) I could type a novel.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

At the time, my brooder set up was about 4.5' by 11', so it was trivial to set up a step in chicken wire fence, make sure each side had multiple feed and water bowls - but I understand I have more available space than most. and in FL, better climate, too. Now that's been reconfigured as a 6x10 grow out pen, and I'm using a 4' x5.5' (approx) space with power (not reliant on 100' of extension cord) as my brooder. I have a separate temporary outdoor run I set up for integration with the main flock, as well. It will become permanent as soon as I decide where to install a chicken door in the side of my barn. Still thinking about how best to configure the space for the addition of goats this spring.

 

[Trisseh]

Your setup will definitely be much, much different from mine then! Haha. I had my first group to brood in early March this year, when it was still double digits below freezing outside. They had to be brooded in my bedroom because the basement was too cold, the rest of the house fluctuates too much with wood heat, and I have cats and a dog that would’ve loved to eat the littles. xD
Sounds like your setup is perfect for what you’re doing.