Early Lockdown with Varying Air Cells

[Waterfaery]

It's my first time hatching! I'm using the Brinsea Maxi 24 EX. I started with 24 eggs (12 Light Sussex and 12 Australorp) and now I have 13 eggs in total still alive on day 18. Some of them have large air cells and others look very small to me compared to the diagrams I've seen online. I'm so anxious about getting the humidity right but with such a large variation in the air cells I'm unsure. I keep reading things and then panicking and changing my mind etc.

I was originally planning to do a dry hatch but my incubator manual said 40-50% so I was nervous about going below that and kept it at 40% throughout. My temperature has been consistent at 37.5C.

On day 15 I started to see a couple of eggs wobbling and wiggling and on day 16 lots of them were doing it. I read some threads that said to start lockdown early. I was worried about some of the air cells being too small so I stopped the turner at the end of day 16 but I didn't increase the humidity.

Then at the start of day 18 I raised the humidity to 60% because I keep reading about day 18 and lockdown and that was what I thought I was supposed to do. After that, most of the eggs stopped wobbling and I panicked again and read some more. It was only then that I read that lockdown should start after day 18, so essentially that should actually be day 19. I panicked when I read that and dropped the humidity back down to 30% to try to compensate. That was a few hours ago now.

Now I've started to hear cheeping from some of the eggs but it's still day 18 (day 19 starts in another 6 hours). I have set the humidity to 65% since hearing the cheeping but I'm worried about the ones with the small air cells. Only 4 of the 13 eggs are still wobbling.

So my questions:

1. Is there any reason why the air cells are so varying? There are a mix of sizes across the two breeds so it's not down to that.

2. Have I caused problems by changing the humidity up and down so much in the last 24 hours? Could that have harmed them and should I be worried that lots of them have stopped wobbling?

3. Is it not too early to hear cheeping? I have read they can hatch early or late but my temperature has been perfect so I don't see any reason for early hatching. Does raising the humidity early induce them? If they hatch early will they be weaker?

4. Does 65% seem ok for the situation I'm in now? I'm scared of drowning them but I'm also scared of shrink wrapping them and I don't know which way to lean.

5. I have opened the vent because I've read about them needing extra oxygen for the hatch. Does that only apply to still air incubators? Mine is forced air and fully automatic. With the vent open, the humidity pump is on constantly and it's just about maintaining 65%. It was only on intermittently when I had the vent closed. Should I close it or not?

Thanks so much for any help!

 

[Jaime918]

1. Is there any reason why the air cells are so varying? There are a mix of sizes across the two breeds so it's not down to that.

It could be the thickness of the egg between the 2 breeds.

2. Have I caused problems by changing the humidity up and down so much in the last 24 hours? Could that have harmed them and should I be worried that lots of them have stopped wobbling?

Humidity should be okay as long as you keep it up now. Mine tend to stop wobbling about 24 hrs before hatch. They are getting into position.

3. Is it not too early to hear cheeping? I have read they can hatch early or late but my temperature has been perfect so I don't see any reason for early hatching. Does raising the humidity early induce them? If they hatch early will they be weaker?

Did you run a secondary thermometer/hygrometer?

Raising the humidity does not induce hatching, it just allows them to hatch easier. Some can be weaker, but so can some that hatch right on time.

Personally, all 4 of my hatches have started and finished on day 20.

4. Does 65% seem ok for the situation I'm in now? I'm scared of drowning them but I'm also scared of shrink wrapping them and I don't know which way to lean.

Since you ran about 40% for incubation, I wouldn't go higher than 60%, and humidity will naturally rise as they begin to hatch.

5. I have opened the vent because I've read about them needing extra oxygen for the hatch. Does that only apply to still air incubators? Mine is forced air and fully automatic. With the vent open, the humidity pump is on constantly and it's just about maintaining 65%. It was only on intermittently when I had the vent closed. Should I close it or not?

It's fine to leave open as long as it isn't affecting temp/humidity. My NR360 has a vent it says to open fully for lockdown, where as my other doesn't have that option.

 

[Rose Quartz]

Humidity is variable, the ambient humidity will affect what's going on inside your incubator. I do dry hatches, no added water until hatching time. While someone a town over from me fills her water troughs through the whole thing. We both get decent hatches.

The varying air cell sizes between eggs has to do with the thickness of the shell. Some will be more porous than others and will lose moisture more quickly.

What you're looking for is an average aircell size between them all. Too small and there's a possibility of drowning, too big and they can be too confined to pip the shell properly.

The humidity swings will be fine. Keep in mind broody hens do get up to use the bathroom and eat and dust bathe.

Once they start pipping externally keep your humidity above 50% and below 80% when it gets too high (over 80) the remaining liquid in the egg turns to glue and they get stuck.

 

[Waterfaery]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't run additional thermometers or hygrometers for the duration but I did run the incubator for a couple of days before the eggs went in and I used separate thermometers and hygrometers to test the internal ones for accuracy and they were perfect.

I'm part way into day 19 now. I have dropped the humidity back to 60% and am leaving the vent open. Nothing else has happened.

I haven't heard any cheeping for almost 12 hours now so I'm quite worried about that. Would that be normal? I'm not even sure which egg was cheeping or if it was one or more than one. I thought they may go quiet and rest for a while but would they stop cheeping completely for so long?

 

[Rose Quartz]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't run additional thermometers or hygrometers for the duration but I did run the incubator for a couple of days before the eggs went in and I used separate thermometers and hygrometers to test the internal ones for accuracy and they were perfect.

I'm part way into day 19 now. I have dropped the humidity back to 60% and am leaving the vent open. Nothing else has happened.

I haven't heard any cheeping for almost 12 hours now so I'm quite worried about that. Would that be normal? I'm not even sure which egg was cheeping or if it was one or more than one. I thought they may go quiet and rest for a while but would they stop cheeping completely for so long?

Yep

 

[Waterfaery]

So I have one external pip now but it's at the wrong end! That particular egg was shaking like mad yesterday and it's totally still now. I suppose it may be resting? Is there anything I can do and how long should I wait? It's morning here so I don't know when it pipped. It could have been anytime during the night.

I can't see very well because the pip is facing away from the side of the incubator but when I look in I think I'm seeing membrane, not a beak. Is it possible for it to break the shell and not the membrane? I'm worried it won't be able to breathe because it's not in the air cell?

 

[Waterfaery]

The chick has widened the hole and I can see clearly now that it hasn't broken through the inner membrane. I've been watching it for the past 5 hours and I can see the shape of its beak under the membrane pushing outwards every now and again, as if it's trying to pierce it but it can't. It was going at it quite strongly for a long time but it seems to be taking longer breaks now and its efforts seem weaker than they were before.

The outer membrane is still white but the inner one is starting to look very brown. I've increased the humidity back to 65% to see if that helps but I'm worried it's already too dried out and may be even harder for the chick to break.

I would get a photograph if it wasn't for the awkward angle it's at in the incubator but hopefully I've described it well enough.

I've read about other people with this situation breaking the inner membrane after a while. What could be used to do that safely? And how long would be best to wait before trying? Or is there something else I should do? I'd hate to be sitting here watching it and just let it die but obviously I'd prefer to not intervene unless it's really warranted.

 

[Yardmom]

Be patient with the malposition. It is like an internal and external pip at the same time. It will take longer to hatch then the ones who come through the air cell.

 

[Waterfaery]

Thanks. I was so prepared to be patient! It's tricky now that something out of the ordinary is happening. I'm just wondering if it can breathe under there? And also if it will actually be able to break through the inner membrane as it would to internally pip now that the membrane is drying out and tougher? I'm watching it really struggle to get its beak through.

Also, since this one clearly never internally pipped into the air cell, am I right in assuming it's not the one I heard cheeping yesterday? Does that mean that one is probably dead? It's been about 30 hours since I heard it.

 

[Rose Quartz]

Thanks. I was so prepared to be patient! It's tricky now that something out of the ordinary is happening. I'm just wondering if it can breathe under there? And also if it will actually be able to break through the inner membrane as it would to internally pip now that the membrane is drying out and tougher? I'm watching it really struggle to get its beak through.

Also, since this one clearly never internally pipped into the air cell, am I right in assuming it's not the one I heard cheeping yesterday? Does that mean that one is probably dead? It's been about 30 hours since I heard it.

with the outer shell broken it has broken through the membrane enough to breathe even if you can't see it.

give this one 36 hours from when you saw the pip, and then check in on it. I don't mean assist at that point, just see if it sounds weaker, or if it's repeatedly moving it's beak up and down and not getting anywhere, or looking like it's chewing on something. If you can't see the beak fully, avoid picking at the shell because there are a lot of big veins in the pointy end and you're likely to make it bleed.

Malpositioned chicks tend to have brown membrane, not from drying out, but from bleeding, because they nicked something while pipping. So don't take brown membrane with this one to mean the humidity is too low.

The others, chicks often get really quiet for long periods. Especially following pipping into either the inner membrane, or the outer one. They'll make a lot of noise right after they do it and then they'll go quiet while they rest and gain their strength to try again.