Egg laying weirdness, too many treats?

[malesoing]

Hello y'all, just checking in with everyone, updating some of my chicken's behavior.

First, we had a death in the family, my beautiful black hen was killed by something we never saw or identified, we just found her limp body in the run. The other 3 hens were acting really undone, like they'd seen the kill and they were terrified. Very sad, as she was wonderful, the alpha bird, really.

They had all been free range hens until that day and now I keep them all in the run most days unless I am outside, when I will let them out to roam. They don't like it much at all, and they are absolute destroyers of the grassy area of the run footprint. Wow, can they ruin a yard! Ha!

Meanwhile, regarding weird chicken behavior, I've noticed that from time to time a couple of my hens will lay their eggs in random places, like somewhere in the yard under a tree, for example. Not often, but it's happened. Lately, however, both the brown hens lay theirs in the front corner of the coop, opposite site from the beautifully arranged nesting boxes. ;-) I don't mind so much, but.... why? Then they tend to shit all over the place there, as well, so the eggs aren't so pristine looking coming out of the coop. Sigh. Just curious.

Also, I've been giving everyone a treat of some kind every morning when I open the coop into the run. Either a small scoop of meal worms, a small scoop of sunflower seeds in the shell, or a treat cake (those pressed cakes that fit in a metal mesh basket). Is that enough? Too much? I have no idea how to tell what is 10% of their diet as they have access to their feed dish all day and I don't know how much they truly eat.


Thanks so much for any thoughts or feedback.

Maggie

 

[SandyRiverChick]

They can really be picky about where they lay so look for something that needs tweaking. In a nutshell the nest boxes need to feel like the best place for privacy and hiding eggs. I noticed that they don't like the sun shining in their faces. So I moved my nest boxes to the opposite wall of the coop, northern facing sun and I used a black veneer inside the boxes to make it even darker. They love the boxes now. And all of that said, because mine free-range every day until summer when I keep them in the run, I had one that kept jumping out and then actually jumping back in when they went from ranging season to run season. I followed her one day when she jumped out and found a nest of about 30 beautiful olive eggs, ugh. I removed the run panel that was low enough for her to jump over but I still keep a close eye on her.

For treats, I don't give them every day I just give them randomly because I want the main source of nutrition to be their feed. I use All Flock with Oyster shell offered on the side. Because they free range they don't really also need treats but I dont see anything wrong with the seeds and worms you're giving. The suet might have way to much fat though.

 

[malesoing]

Thanks, SandyRiverChick,

I think I must be giving treats too often, so I'll just cut back on it. Also, these treat cakes aren't suet, they're just a variety of seeds and meal worms pressed into a cake shape. (These are made by Happy Hen, in case you haven't seen them. The chickens go crazy over them, so there's a strong clue to me potentially over-"treating." )

Unfortunately, our coop is not a big roomy place I can rearrange or move anything around. It's a premade coop that says it can house 6 hens, though I think that would be really crowded. The nesting boxes are built-in so the only thing I can really do is keep it all clean and tidy and sprinkle nesting herbs around in there, which I do. Howlie, the white hen, continues to lay in a nesting box, but the 2 brown hens stick together and lay in the corner across from the door. Maybe that door lets in too much light for them? Not sure how to block light as that's the only way in/out.

I'll keep trying what I can, and cut back the treats.

Thanks so much!

 

[SandyRiverChick]

Oh interesting, no I haven't heard of the cakes but I'll look for them, thanks. So maybe your boxes are too small? Just another thought since you said pre-fab coop. I have found that my hens prefer 14x14x14 boxes even though the Internet says something else. I've seen some of those boxes are 10x10x10 which is too small unless you have bantams. Just something to check.....

 

[aart]

I'd suggest completely cutting out all foods other than a good well balanced chicken ration and fresh clean water. Lose the herbs in the nests and add a fake egg to each nest.
Crowding can be a serious issues, way more than "too much light".

 

[malesoing]

No herbs in the boxes? Aw, that seemed like so much fun. But of course, it's probably not necessary, I just like it! Ha! But I'll try.

I feed them Mile Four layer feed, which I believe is a very good all around feed. I may try the no treats route for awhile, as something needs to change, truly.

I'll measure the nesting boxes and if they seem too small I can remove one of the wooden dividers between them, which will make 2 boxes into 1 large oblong one. Maybe they'll like that?

Thanks so much!

 

[NatJ]

Also, I've been giving everyone a treat of some kind every morning when I open the coop into the run. Either a small scoop of meal worms, a small scoop of sunflower seeds in the shell, or a treat cake (those pressed cakes that fit in a metal mesh basket). Is that enough? Too much? I have no idea how to tell what is 10% of their diet as they have access to their feed dish all day and I don't know how much they truly eat.

As a rough guideline: go in the kitchen, get a "1 Tablespoon" measuring spoon, give no more than one level tablespoon of treats per hen each day. That is about 10% of what many hens will eat in feed each day (as in, they will often eat 10 Tablespoons of dry feed, which is 5/8 of a cup. The amount may be different from one brand of feed to another, and from one hen to another, and even from one day to another, but it is at least a starting point).

If you want to be really precise, the 10% guideline falls apart very fast, starting with: do you go by volume or by weight? Since water does not count as a treat, what about watermelon, since it is mostly water? And so on and so forth.

You asked if the current treats are "enough" or if they are too much. I do not know if they are too much, because I do not know what size scoop you are using or what size the treat cake is. But they are definitely "enough," considering that your hens do not really need any treats. No treats at all can be "enough."

 

[malesoing]

Oh man, NO treats can be "enough"? Argh! Just kidding, I'm sure I'm projecting my desire for chocolate cake onto my hens. But I'm certainly willing to give it a try. I never sought out being a chicken mom but once we adopted them I was/am loving it.

When they've been out free ranging during the day and I need them back in their run, I usually shake a crinkly bag of sunflower seeds or plastic cup with meal worms in it to get their attention and have them follow me back to the coop. Haven't figured out a better/different way to do it. If I wait until dusk and they go in naturally, predators come out and I'm not willing to lose another hen to natural selection (or whatever it's called).

If 10% of their whole daily diet is about 1 T each, then, WOW, am I ever over treating them!

And, I'm curious: do your hens eat all the food given them every day or is there a base amount that just stays in the bottom of the feed tray? I give a fresh scoop every morning but there is always a fair amount of residual food just left behind in the tray. They pick over what they prefer and tend to leave the rest. Maybe when I cut back or eliminate treats they will eat more feed.

 

[NatJ]

And, I'm curious: do your hens eat all the food given them every day or is there a base amount that just stays in the bottom of the feed tray? I give a fresh scoop every morning but there is always a fair amount of residual food just left behind in the tray. They pick over what they prefer and tend to leave the rest. Maybe when I cut back or eliminate treats they will eat more feed.

I have always used a pelleted or crumbled feed (the ingredients are ground up and mixed, and then stuck back together into pellets or crumbles.)

Using that kind of feed, I have always provided it free-choice. So no, they did not eat it all up every day.

If your chickens are picking out their favorite parts, I'll bet you are using one of the feeds that has a bunch of whole grains and some powders. If they only eat their favorite parts, and skip the rest, they are not getting a well-balanced diet. You can try taking what is left in the bottom of the dish, adding a little water, and serving it as a wet mash. Chickens often like that very well, and it will help them get all the nutrients that the manufacturer put in the bag.

When they've been out free ranging during the day and I need them back in their run, I usually shake a crinkly bag of sunflower seeds or plastic cup with meal worms in it to get their attention and have them follow me back to the coop. Haven't figured out a better/different way to do it. If I wait until dusk and they go in naturally, predators come out and I'm not willing to lose another hen to natural selection (or whatever it's called).

I have found that chickens like a wet mash (dry feed + water). I have usually done it with pellets or crumbles, which soak up the water quickly. If you use a feed with whole grains, I don't know how long it would need to soak.

For many years, my default method of getting chickens back into the run has been: put dry feed plus water into a dish, whistle to attract the chickens' attention, then walk into the run like a Pied Piper with chickens following along beind. At that point, it's easy to put down the dish, walk out, and close the door while they are eating. (If the run is too small to walk into, just reach in and sit down the dish, then close the door after they go in.)

I have tried using bread crusts to lure chickens back into the run: the first one picked up the bread crust and ran back out, before the slowpokes even went in. That was an experiement I did not bother to repeat! A dish of wet mash makes them stay THERE to eat it, just as much as bite-sized pieces of mealworms do.

If 10% of their whole daily diet is about 1 T each, then, WOW, am I ever over treating them!

Unfortunately, that is very easy to do They love treats, and it is fun for the person to watch them being excited

That's another reason I like to use wet mash as a treat: all the fun of giving a treat, but they can eat as much as they want with no nutritional problems. If they eat more wet feed, they will eat less dry feed and drink less water, but they will still self-regulate to get the right total amount.

 

[malesoing]

I do prefer the crumbles or pellets, actually, but yes, I've been giving them the mix with separate grains and seaweed powder, etc. I did try the wet mash version a couple times and they looked up at me like I was poisoning them, then walked away. I will need to slowly introduce it, I'm sure. I've also tried fermented feed and that was basically the same, not interested.

How many days should I give them to get used to such a radically different food? I know that if they're hungry they'll eat, especially if I slow down or stop with the treats. I do hate to make them go hungry.

I'm sure I've been postponing switching to crumbles or pellets but maybe it's time I do that.