Eggbound hen - am I crazy to pay a vet $150?

[CallyB57]

ace, there is a large bag of corshell you can just take handfuls of it and toss it out like scratch grains. I have around 34 hens and together they must consume about 4 scattered handfuls a week of the corshell calcium - it's not expensive and one bag has lasted me over 7 months already

 

[BWchicken]

Ace, I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I had to take one of mine to the vet the other day. She stopped laying, and I thought I felt a soft-shelled egg in her. X-rays showed no eggs and the vet said what I was feeling was her intestines. So I guess she's ok. Still can't figure out why she stopped laying though. She's a Barred Rock Bantam and usually lays nearly every day. The only other symptom I see is gaping and head shaking, but I JUST wormed with fenbendazole a week ago, so it shouldn't be gapeworm. Her breathing seems fine. She's not broody, not molting. I'm just keeping an eye on her for now.

Anyway, about Avril. I would never presume to know more than an avian vet, but eggs can be passed around another that's stuck, I do know that. My vet was very concerned when we figured out that was what was happening to Ginger via x-rays, and there was no question about it. Your vet may be right about it not being the same egg you feel, but I do worry about the possibility it's a cemented egg you're feeling. Is there ever a time when you couldn't feel the egg or is it always there? If you can find another avian vet for a second opinion, that may be a good idea. Otherwise, you can just follow your vets advice and give Avril as many normal happy days as you can. If the egg you feel is indeed stuck to the shell gland, it will eventually need to be surgically removed. But like your vet said, as long as she's happy and normal acting, why do it now? The end result would be surgery anyway, so I don't see anything wrong with waiting and giving her as many happy days as you can. BUT if you see any distress at all, the waiting's over, and surgery becomes necessary and worth the risk at that point. I wish Avril would keep passing eggs until you don't feel any more in her. I would be so happy if she proved me wrong.

As for calcium, could you put her in the cage every evening like you did before? Just long enough to give her a treat with a regular Tums mixed in, then she could go right back out. That way, you can give just her the extra calcium once a day without the other birds. I don't think you can do the Tums long term, but a week or so probably wouldn't hurt, might help. Please keep me updated on our little Avril, I hope she's still doing well!

 

[PoultryPedia]

Might an injectable sedative be safer for chickens than gas??

Also, if you decide to get her operated on or try removing and possibly breaking an egg yourself:
--If I'm remembering right, it can be helpful with some operations to give antibiotics a day or two beforehand in addition to afterwards, to help give the body greatest defense against infection.

 

[PoultryPedia]

Quote:
I don't know if you're already doing this but home treatments that aren't too hard include:
* Lowering perches and putting down deeper, softer bedding so landing isn't as hard on their feet
* My opinion: Soaking their feet in warm water & scrubbing clean with toothbrush & soap, & then rinsing. Putting Neosporin on( and around infected areas while they are still soft, so some of it can absorb through skin & help fight infection.
* Best proven antibiotic for leg infections is Penicillin. You can buy a bottle of this at a feed store (You will find it in their refrigerator, where they keep vaccines.) for under $12, and syringe with needle is about 30 cents. Use Penicillin G (not the long-acting Penicillin). I don't want to over-hijack this thread, but if you want to try using Penicillin, if you start another thread asking how to administer it (You have to follow detailed steps to effectively use it.) and then PM me, I will post instructions.
Best wishes.

p.s. Ace--My heart is holding on for Avril! I hope things are going well with you both.

 

[ace6175]

Thanks, BW for your reply. I hope your BR is OK! It's so distressing to have an animal ill. Please keep us informed on her condition.
As for Avril, she seems fine! 2 days ago, I saw her pull a worm right out of the ground and eat it! (must have learned that from the robins). Although, I am sure that the egg is the very same one that has been there all along. And it's probably cemented in there now.
When I give her extra calcium, she doesn't lay eggs for a few days, and then acts eggbound - standing around a little puffed up, I can see she is having "contractions". If I stop forcing the calcium, then every other day or so, she lays a thin shelled egg that breaks and is eaten before I get there in the morning. She has access to crushed egg shells, and some oyster shell calcium, as well as any calcium in her layer feed.
I think the vet I took her to is afraid to do this surgery, since it is probably very risky at this point. How long can she live with this calcified egg inside her? I know surgery is her only option to ever be normal again, but if the vet thinks it's too risky, then what??
How was Ginger acting before her surgery? Was she alright? Was she in pain?
I guess as long as Avril has quality of life (which she does right now), I'm going to leave her alone.
Thanks so much for your support!

 

[AndreaS]

I've been following this thread since it posted, and haven't said anything since I have no useful information to share. My girls are only 12 weeks old, so I have no experience with laying issues.....and honestly, I'm scared to death for when they start laying because of all the complications I've read about here!

Ace, I just wanted to let you know I've been keeping my fingers crossed for both you and avril! This thread has been very informative.

 

[ace6175]

Thanks, Andrea. My neighbor has had chickens for 10 years now, and she doesn't get too attached to them....this is probably why.

I have 8 other hens that have never had a problem, though!

 

[BWchicken]

Hi ace. Well, my BR still hasn't laid anything, but she acts perfectly normal. I still feel something small, round and soft in her though. The vet said it was just her intestines, but I'm not so sure. The x-ray showed no shelled eggs, but I doubt a soft-shelled egg would show up. As long as she acts okay, I guess I'll just keep a close eye on her. It just seems odd to me for a young BR to stop laying for 3 weeks for no apparent reason.

You asked about Ginger before her procedure, and yes generally she was okay. But when she had to lay an egg, it was a different story After laying, she recovered quickly and seemed perfectly fine. But only until the next egg. Each time it got harder for her. The night before her procedure, I was up all night with her while she went through 12 hours of "labor" before finally laying another thin-shelled dented egg, cracked and leaking. I know it must have been painful for her. I clearly remember thinking 'if she has to go through this again, it's going to kill her'. The procedure at the vet was already scheduled for that next morning, and I know her ordeal the night before weakened her. But I couldn't bear to watch her go through that again, and I wanted that egg out of her. I do have some regrets as I've said before, but in Ginger's case it was time. I would have rather lost her while she was asleep during a procedure, rather than have her die later in pain.

I wish I could answer your question about how long she can live with a calcified egg in her. I wish I knew what happens over time, but I just don't. Maybe someone else here on BYC does and can advise. Could you ask your vet? I think I read somewhere that in time, the egg will actually calcify and becomes rock-like, but what happens after that I don't know. As for forcing extra calcium, I don't blame you for stopping it if it caused her the least bit of discomfort. She can get what she needs from her layer feed and oyster shells. I do think you're doing the right thing for Avril. She deserves as many normal happy days as you can give her, and I'm so glad to hear that she is still active and happy. I was always surprised at how normal Ginger was for so long. You'd never have known she had an egg stuck inside her for a month.

I do hope Avril comes out of this ordeal okay. Do you think your vet is nervous about the surgery because he doesn't have much experience with it? Is there any chance of finding another vet to see her? You are in a tough spot, but I think you're doing the right thing to let Avril live normally as long as she can. But have a vet and a plan in place for what you're going to do if she takes a bad turn. If she starts to go downhill you'll need a vet ready to perform right then. I really think a second opinion from a different vet might be helpful (if you can find one), you want to have the best possible vet when the time comes for surgery. If your current vet doesn't want to do it, it would be good to get someone else lined up. Because you know eventually it's gonna come to that and you won't have time to wait if Avril starts to go downhill. Better to get a vet and a plan in place now. When the time comes to take action, it'll be easier if you know ahead of time where you're going to take her, and what the procedure will be. Some really good avian vets can even do hysterectomies to ensure no more problems. It's probably extensive and expensive so you'd have to do some serious considering on something like that, I'm sure. It's just a thought, if you have a really good vet and she's in surgery anyway. I'm hoping you can get a second opinion, so you can discuss all these things ahead of time and decide the best course of action for when the time comes. Once you have a plan of action, you can just sit back and enjoy Avril and all her worm-eating antics for as long as possible!

Please keep updating, and I wish you and Avril the best.

 

[ace6175]

BW, I think you are right to be concerned about your BR. 3 weeks is a long time for a young hen to stop laying (unless she is broody, and I'm sure you would know if that were the case!) I hope she is alright. Please keep me updated.
Are you more sensitive to your other chickens because of what happened with Ginger? I have been watching my other hens very closely.
Thanks for your advice on Avril. It sounds like a really good idea to have a plan of action. The last time I talked to the vet he mentioned that maybe an X-ray was in order. I didn't get one, because, if he's not going to operate unless she's really acting ill, then why bother? I think what he said was that if indeed she had the same egg stuck in her, then the surgery would be very serious, and he didn't want to do it unless basically she had no other option. I will call him tomorrow and ask him if he has ever done surgery like this. He's an avian vet, so I imagine surgery on a chicken would be a lot easier than a parakeet. If I bring her in for an X-ray, I'm sure it will confirm my suspicions about the stuck egg.
This isn't something I ever thought of when I got chickens. I guess it's all a learning experience.

 

[BWchicken]

Yeah, I can relate to that, I am also more watchful over my chickens. Now that I know they can have something wrong and not really show it, I feel like I have to really pay attention. And I am worried about my little BR, I just don't know what to do because I already took her to the vet, had x-rays and a physical exam. He couldn't find any reason for her not laying, and said she must be just taking a break. I thought I could feel a small soft-shelled egg, but he said that was her intestines. He seemed a little surprised that she normally lays almost every day. I know the laying habits of chickens are quite different from parrots and such, and that's the kind of birds he usually sees. He is the ONLY avian vet around and is very highly regarded. So I'm not sure how to proceed. If she has a tumor or is laying internally, I'm sure that will become apparent in time. But for now, just like you're doing with Avril, I'm keeping a close eye on her but letting her live normally with the others. She has no symptoms of anything, she acts perfectly normal, eating drinking, scratching, flying, etc. Her abdomen isn't hard or fluid-filled, just normal. Poop is normal too. Since she's happy and active, there's no clue as to why she's not laying, so I guess I'm going to take the wait and see approach. I don't really see any other options at this point. I'd love to hear ideas if anyone has any.

An x-ray for Avril would probably tell you what you already know, she has a stuck egg. But it may give you other information too, as to the exact location of the egg, how big it is, etc. Not sure any of that would change anything as far as treatment though. Now if she stops laying completely, you would want to get an x-ray then, to see if eggs are geting backed up. That would be serious and you'd probably have to take action at that point. Your vet makes sense that if the surgery is that risky, it's best to wait until there is no other option. And I think it's a great idea to call him and ask questions about the surgery, as well as his level of experience with it. You may even want to ask about a hysterectomy, but I think it takes a very skilled vet to do that, and it can be risky from what I've read. On second thought, that's probably not necessary for Avril, since she has proven that she's still able to lay eggs. Maybe someone else knows more about that and can comment? But yeah, I think having a talk with him is a great idea and something you should do.

Me too, so much has happened since I got my chickens that I never expected. I have learned so much more than I ever thought I'd know about a chicken, and I'm sure I still don't know the half of it! But it has all been worth it, the smiles and the quiet peace they give me are priceless.