Emu Egg Hatch-along

[MGG]

At the advice of other emu hatchers and a really great article that I'll find and post. (https://www.emu.services/news-and-articles/why-you-shouldnt-assist-an-emu-egg-hatch#/) . They say emu should not be assisted during hatch. They almost never make it. I've assisted a lot of other birds including ducks, chickens, and geese. I hesitate to even think of a safety hole since we're still within a very normal hatching window. It's so hard to know!

A hair tie and a straw makes a hobble. Or some use medical tape or vet wrap. Baby c is not too excited. This picture is not of my baby. View attachment 4048590

I read the article. I really can't wrap my head around the idea that assisting these is any different from other fowl. I never do safety holes, I just wait until the very end and then gradually break away the air cell. There's no veins up there so there's zero risk. And there's already a membrane barrier blocking the chick. Usually as soon as you get the air cell opened a bit you can tell exactly what's going on. If the beak isn't in the cell something isn't right. If the beak is in there and they seem good and active I'll stick a little piece of scotch tape over the hole and just keep an eye on it. If the beak isn't in there though they almost always need help. I've assisted tons of babies. My wild ducks need help frequently and those are like $300 babies so I've gotten extremely good at it. Not to brag, I just have it down to a science and haven't lost any babies to assisting in years. Candling is a big help in assisting so I can see where that would complicate it a bit with emus, but I can't imagine it being too hard. I usually use a 1ml syringe with a 28 ga needle on the end, fill it with warm filtered water and slowly squirt water in key places to moisten the membrane enough to check for veins without having to make the hole very big. They'll also yawn if they're still absorbing and not ready. That's how they trigger abdominal contractions to force the yolk to absorb. A lot of babies will finish absorbing and then for whatever reason get worn out and never actually try to hatch. At that point if you step in they can almost always be saved. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours, and of course you've hatched emus and I have not. I would just be cautious. Stragglers usually have a hard time or are compromised somehow. That instinct to hatch together is very very strong. The air cell doesn't have much air in it so once they internally pip they have to externally pip in not too long. Ducks usually have about 32 hours worth of air in there. Much past that and they'll die if they don't pip. I don't know how much emus have but I'd imagine they suck a lot of air.

 

[Strawberry74]

I read the article. I really can't wrap my head around the idea that assisting these is any different from other fowl. I never do safety holes, I just wait until the very end and then gradually break away the air cell. There's no veins up there so there's zero risk. And there's already a membrane barrier blocking the chick. Usually as soon as you get the air cell opened a bit you can tell exactly what's going on. If the beak isn't in the cell something isn't right. If the beak is in there and they seem good and active I'll stick a little piece of scotch tape over the hole and just keep an eye on it. If the beak isn't in there though they almost always need help. I've assisted tons of babies. My wild ducks need help frequently and those are like $300 babies so I've gotten extremely good at it. Not to brag, I just have it down to a science and haven't lost any babies to assisting in years. Candling is a big help in assisting so I can see where that would complicate it a bit with emus, but I can't imagine it being too hard. I usually use a 1ml syringe with a 28 ga needle on the end, fill it with warm filtered water and slowly squirt water in key places to moisten the membrane enough to check for veins without having to make the hole very big. They'll also yawn if they're still absorbing and not ready. That's how they trigger abdominal contractions to force the yolk to absorb. A lot of babies will finish absorbing and then for whatever reason get worn out and never actually try to hatch. At that point if you step in they can almost always be saved. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours, and of course you've hatched emus and I have not. I would just be cautious. Stragglers usually have a hard time or are compromised somehow. That instinct to hatch together is very very strong. The air cell doesn't have much air in it so once they internally pip they have to externally pip in not too long. Ducks usually have about 32 hours worth of air in there. Much past that and they'll die if they don't pip. I don't know how much emus have but I'd imagine they suck a lot of air.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience assisting. I did have a 4-day gap in Hatch last year with egg set at the same time so I'm still trying to be patient. Emus have enough air in their air cell for 3 days. I think it's internally pipped and just not whistling based on the feeling of activity in the air cell. I know Pyxis said that she's never had a successful assist with emu when I asked her last year if she ever assisted. I'd like to be the anomaly if I were to choose to do it. I'm just so nervous that I'd intervened too soon and make a mess of things

 

[MGG]

Sounds like you have a lot of experience assisting. I did have a 4-day gap in Hatch last year with egg set at the same time so I'm still trying to be patient. Emus have enough air in their air cell for 3 days. I think it's internally pipped and just not whistling based on the feeling of activity in the air cell. I know Pyxis said that she's never had a successful assist with emu when I asked her last year if she ever assisted. I'd like to be the anomaly if I were to choose to do it. I'm just so nervous that I'd intervened too soon and make a mess of things

Yeah I'm sure they're pretty tough birds and it's a big egg so there's probably a lot of air in it. Is the brooder by the incubator? Hearing his buddies would probably help.
I know Pyxis is good at assisting. I don't know, I'd just keep an eye on it and pray I guess
Losing one after making it so far would be disappointing. Hopefully he's all good in there. Maybe there was a cooler spot in the incubator? How long do you think he's been internally pipped?

 

[Strawberry74]

I don't honestly know for certain that it's internally pipped but maybe yesterday I'm not sure. I should have written down when I thought. But I also might be making it up to comfort myself LOL. I just looked back on the thread where Pixis had answered me. Blow is what she said... I guess she has done safety holes that have turned out okay it seems?

As you found out, sometimes they just take longer

"I have done safety holes before for ones that I was really anxious about - shipped eggs - and it really hasn't hurt.

There have been three that I tried to fully assist. They all died. I got them out of the shell, but they all passed or had to be put down. One was a white chick - it had no eyes, and never could get to its feet and wouldn't eat or drink. That one I put down on day five. One was a standard, extremely sticky - something was wrong with the egg, I think. It died on its own on day 4. And one more white that seemed fine but had a huge belly and probably had a retained yolk sac. That one I even tried tube feeding, but it still didn't make it.

So I've come to learn that if they can't get out on their own, they probably can't survive."

The incubator is right next to the brooder and let me tell you that I left my office in the back of the house so I could eat lunch and baby b was screaming at me so there's no way that baby in the incubator isn't motivated by that racket

 

[MGG]

I don't honestly know for certain that it's internally pipped but maybe yesterday I'm not sure. I should have written down when I thought. But I also might be making it up to comfort myself LOL. I just looked back on the thread where Pixis had answered me. Blow is what she said... I guess she has done safety holes that have turned out okay it seems?

As you found out, sometimes they just take longer

"I have done safety holes before for ones that I was really anxious about - shipped eggs - and it really hasn't hurt.

There have been three that I tried to fully assist. They all died. I got them out of the shell, but they all passed or had to be put down. One was a white chick - it had no eyes, and never could get to its feet and wouldn't eat or drink. That one I put down on day five. One was a standard, extremely sticky - something was wrong with the egg, I think. It died on its own on day 4. And one more white that seemed fine but had a huge belly and probably had a retained yolk sac. That one I even tried tube feeding, but it still didn't make it.

So I've come to learn that if they can't get out on their own, they probably can't survive."

The incubator is right next to the brooder and let me tell you that I left my office in the back of the house so I could eat lunch and baby b was screaming at me so there's no way that baby in the incubator isn't motivated by that racket

Yeah there are definitely the babies that just don't hatch because they have something physically wrong with them.
I usually end up assisting those just in case if I get them. I had a wigeon duckling I assisted that had a bent bill and was missing his right eye. He actually ended up being fine and I still have him three years later. The bill even straightened out and looks normal now. So they can make it even with physical disabilities, it's just rarer. The majority of ones I end up assisting are just weaker and worn out, or have an issue from incubator settings getting off. I get sticky chicks sometimes or shrinkwrapped ones that need help. Those ones all usually make it fine too. It sounds like hers just all had severe complications that were too stressful for them to overcome.
If I were you, I'd probably just let him be for now as long as he's still wiggling and stuff. If he starts slowing down a lot and being less responsive I'd go in. Hopefully he'll pip or kick or whatever they do to break that shell tonight yet.

 

[MGG]

ALSO! Look who I found. This is the guy we went hunting with and who gave me the eggs. I'm combing through his posts on here now.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/members/matt-swenson.532091/

 

[MGG]

Sounds like he's not had great luck with fertility. I can't find confirmation on here he's ever gotten a fertile egg from them.

 

[Strawberry74]

Sounds like he's not had great luck with fertility. I can't find confirmation on here he's ever gotten a fertile egg from them.

Oh no! That's not encouraging news for you. Hopefully this was their year of fertility.

 

[Strawberry74]

Yeah there are definitely the babies that just don't hatch because they have something physically wrong with them.
I usually end up assisting those just in case if I get them. I had a wigeon duckling I assisted that had a bent bill and was missing his right eye. He actually ended up being fine and I still have him three years later. The bill even straightened out and looks normal now. So they can make it even with physical disabilities, it's just rarer. The majority of ones I end up assisting are just weaker and worn out, or have an issue from incubator settings getting off. I get sticky chicks sometimes or shrinkwrapped ones that need help. Those ones all usually make it fine too. It sounds like hers just all had severe complications that were too stressful for them to overcome.
If I were you, I'd probably just let him be for now as long as he's still wiggling and stuff. If he starts slowing down a lot and being less responsive I'd go in. Hopefully he'll pip or kick or whatever they do to break that shell tonight yet.

Ugh... the stress of the do I don't I conundrum!

 

[MGG]

Oh no! That's not encouraging news for you. Hopefully this was their year of fertility.

Yeah... I'm worried still. Ugh.