European Fibro Meat Bird Project

[Ridgerunner]

No, I have no special knowledge about that. You might contact your national agricultural ministry and see if they have recommendations, especially for that specific soil and climate.

For my dual purpose birds I just use natural grasses and weeds, plants that are native to the region. Mine is year around, with CX you may be looking at a specific season. I'd look at a mix of grasses, legumes, and other "weeds" or plants to get a variety.

I'm not sure how big of a problem it is with chickens. Horses, cattle, and such can flounder or get bloat by eating a lot of really rich foliage, especially in spring when the growth is fresh and lush. It's not just clover, many things can cause it. It ferments so fast they can't get rid of the gas. We had a bull bloat when a neighbor threw a lot of muskmelons in the pasture, thinking they were doing a good thing since the bull liked them so much. The bull survived but it was in bad shape for a while. I'm not sure chickens would eat that much to cause a problem.

To me clover is a great addition to animal fodder. When we grew clover for hay we mixed it with grasses though so it was not pure clover.

 

[Skyeknight]

No, I have no special knowledge about that. You might contact your national agricultural ministry and see if they have recommendations, especially for that specific soil and climate.

Thank you for answering! No idea who else that is still online would potentially know. The agricultural Ministry won't be any help here. Basically no one here raises their own CX. People mostly process their own roosters if they need to get rid of them. That's about it and it's generally frowned upon. Meaning that most broilers are in barns and not outside or in natural environments exposed to different shrub types.

Mine is year around, with CX you may be looking at a specific season.

Also year round, these CX are for breeding.

I'm not sure how big of a problem it is with chickens. Horses, cattle, and such can flounder or get bloat by eating a lot of really rich foliage, especially in spring when the growth is fresh and lush. It's not just clover, many things can cause it. It ferments so fast they can't get rid of the gas. We had a bull bloat when a neighbor threw a lot of muskmelons in the pasture, thinking they were doing a good thing since the bull liked them so much. The bull survived but it was in bad shape for a while. I'm not sure chickens would eat that much to cause a problem.

My apologies for the confusion. I mentioned clover mostly as example to show that toxic plants is not black and white but grey. Sadly Google isn't really that helpful with these grey area's. I have owned sheep all my life, but only learned last year that clover can cause bloating because I watched the TV serie Yellowstone. So not all that obvious when something is toxic.

To me clover is a great addition to animal fodder. When we grew clover for hay we mixed it with grasses though so it was not pure clover.

Same here, although it already grows in the field.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My apologies for the confusion. I mentioned clover mostly as example to show that toxic plants is not black and white but grey.

So true. Practically anything you eat or they eat has something in it that can be considered "toxic", whether that means "life threatening" or "might make you or them sick". A huge part of that is dosage. For the vast majority of these things one bite will not kill you but if that is your entire diet it could. A good example is white potatoes. Not the sunburned ones that have turned green but regular white potatoes. They contain a substance that can make you or the chickens sick. But a human would probably need to eat over 20 kilograms of them at one sitting for it to be a problem. Chickens would need to eat well over a kilogram. We just can't eat that much. Yet I regularly see posts on here warning about how dangerous they are. So, yes, lots of myths out there.

Also year round, these CX are for breeding.

Then I'd look for a native plant mix. Maybe get a soils analysis and use lime to reduce the acidity so they can thrive. I would hope whoever analyses the soils could recommend how much lime you would need based on the results.

No idea who else that is still online would potentially know.

@NatJ perhaps.

 

[NatJ]

@NatJ perhaps.

Not really. Although I can say that at great length...

Most of the time it is safe enough to let the chickens make their own choices about what to eat. That means you usually don't have to worry much about what plants are in the pasture, or what food scraps you offer the chickens.

It is even safer if the chickens have constant access to a complete chicken food, so they always have the option of something safe to eat. That avoids them eating dangerous things just because they are too hungry.

But I see that this situation is different.
Cornish Cross are known for having voracious appetites, and they are not known for being good at choosing what is safe to eat.

If the Cornish Cross are for meat, it might work to provide constant access to food during daytime hours, and pen them up during the hours of darkness. They will probably ignore the plants and just eat the purchased food if that happens. I have read of people with portable pens ("chicken tractors") who move the pen to fresh grass each morning, and withhold feed for 1/2 hour or so. That encourages the Cornish Cross to eat the grass (and whatever other plants are present), but is a short enough time that they shouldn't overeat on anything that may be toxic.

Trying to raise Cornish Cross for breeding would be different yet, because they need restricted feed to stay in good health. That would make them more likely to eat anything else that might be available. But giving them access to pasture would probably be good for their health, since you want them to live past the usual butchering age.

I suppose you could just try it and see what happens. They might turn out to be smarter than we give them credit for. I would expect a mix of plants to be safer than a monoculture of any one plant. I would not add any plants that you know to be dangerous, but maybe not bother trying to remove every possibly-dangerous one that grows by itself. It probably works better to get them on pasture as young as possible, so they have more time to learn before they get too heavy to walk easily. Besides, at risk of sounding hard-hearted, if they are going to poison themselves, it saves you time and money (buying feed) if they do it as soon as possible.

A maybe-crazy idea: I wonder if you could get some normal hens first, of a kind that goes broody, and let them live in the area long enough to learn what is safe to eat. Then when they go broody, have them raise the Cornish Cross chicks that are meant for breeding. That might be a way to teach the Cornish Cross what plants are safe and what ones are not. Or it might not work at all. I just don't know.

 

[Skyeknight]

A maybe-crazy idea: I wonder if you could get some normal hens first, of a kind that goes broody, and let them live in the area long enough to learn what is safe to eat. Then when they go broody, have them raise the Cornish Cross chicks that are meant for breeding. That might be a way to teach the Cornish Cross what plants are safe and what ones are not. Or it might not work at all. I just don't know.

I think in theory this should work. I won't be able to apply this as I am talking about the 4 CX from the start of this thread. All 4 of them are from broiler farms and at first they didn't know how to do stuff. It was amazing seeing them learn how to do various behaviours like dust bathing and learning how to eat grass seeds in the first month I had them. It did take them a few more months to learn they could eat insects. But that's the thing, I made sure they could learn this is a very safe environment. I am sure that with a actual mother they could learn faster and more than when they need to figure it out on their own.

Trying to raise Cornish Cross for breeding would be different yet, because they need restricted feed to stay in good health. That would make them more likely to eat anything else that might be available. But giving them access to pasture would probably be good for their health, since you want them to live past the usual butchering age.

I suppose you could just try it and see what happens. They might turn out to be smarter than we give them credit for. I would expect a mix of plants to be safer than a monoculture of any one plant. I would not add any plants that you know to be dangerous, but maybe not bother trying to remove every possibly-dangerous one that grows by itself. It probably works better to get them on pasture as young as possible, so they have more time to learn before they get too heavy to walk easily. Besides, at risk of sounding hard-hearted, if they are going to poison themselves, it saves you time and money (buying feed) if they do it as soon as possible.

The ones I am talking about are around 10 months old. They have been exposed to multiple grass species, chicory, nettles, willows and adult Alders (Alnus glutinosa), probably a few more species that were sporadically present. Obviously as they are already this old and laying I would prefer them to not die of poison. I had hoped there was some more knowledge on CX foraging or free range behaviour. Although I guess part of the reason I wanted some in the first place is to get knowledge on what adults CX at like in a natural environment. I guess I will stick to species known to be safe for chickens in almost all the plant parts.

I will add an Ayam Cemani rooster to them soon, so maybe they could still learn something from him. Although sadly he was raised by humans and not a broody.

As far as I have read on the forums, supposedly the chronic hunger of CX does not get inherited by their offspring, right? Cause I am planning to start breeding with the CX soon, before they move to another run. I am planning let their offspring free range from 4 - 5 weeks of age. So I could use them as proxies to see how CX might act with different plants and larger bodies of water.

 

[NatJ]

...I am talking about the 4 CX from the start of this thread. All 4 of them are from broiler farms and at first they didn't know how to do stuff. It was amazing seeing them learn how to do various behaviours like dust bathing and learning how to eat grass seeds in the first month I had them. It did take them a few more months to learn they could eat insects. But that's the thing, I made sure they could learn this is a very safe environment. I am sure that with a actual mother they could learn faster and more than when they need to figure it out on their own.

Since they have already learned some things about what is edible, they might be able to learn more. But yes, I can see why you would want to be a bit careful with what you offer them, given the time & effort you have already put into these birds.

I had hoped there was some more knowledge on CX foraging or free range behaviour.

Unfortunately not me

As far as I have read on the forums, supposedly the chronic hunger of CX does not get inherited by their offspring, right? Cause I am planning to start breeding with the CX soon, before they move to another run. I am planning let their offspring free range from 4 - 5 weeks of age. So I could use them as proxies to see how CX might act with different plants and larger bodies of water.

I got the impression that the mixed offspring have reduced hunger and growth rates as compared with Cornish Cross, but might still have more than other kinds of chickens. But I do not know for sure.

 

[Ridgerunner]

As far as I have read on the forums, supposedly the chronic hunger of CX does not get inherited by their offspring, right?

The CX were developed by selective breeding. If they are going to grow that fast they need to eat a lot so I don't see where their offspring would not inherit their appetite. I'm sorry, that does not sound logical. Do you have a link (hopefully in English) where I could read that in context?

Cause I am planning to start breeding with the CX soon, before they move to another run. I am planning let their offspring free range from 4 - 5 weeks of age. So I could use them as proxies to see how CX might act with different plants and larger bodies of water.

If you breed the girls to a non-CX rooster they will inherit half of their genetics from the rooster. That will slow their offspring's rate of growth.

The CX are a cross. You can get quite a variety of results even in the first generation. That is why they don't breed true, but they should all have a pretty decent rate of growth. By using selective breeding of the offspring you can work on maintaining certain traits but you have to carefully select your breeders.

I believe @Molpet has been through this process.