Expanding and Adding Variety to Flock

[Sohala]

I am going to start my fourth year having chickens come this spring. So far I have only raised my starting 16 black australorps and the chicks from three broody hens. Overall, after losses, I am still sitting at 16...

With the original birds getting up there I am thinking about ordering additional chicks this year. My current thoughts are to get a mix of breeds (Easter Egger, Plymouth Rock, Welsumer, Wyandotte, Leghorn); I want to do this to liven up the physical appearance of both the flock and basket. I keep chickens for the eggs, but I would like any cockerels from broody chickens to be a decent amount of meat. I have several concerns...

How big of a rooster is too big for a given sized hen? Same question, but hens for roosters.
How many roosters do I need for ~30 hens to be popping out fertile eggs?
Will a 12x12 pen be large enough for more than one rooster (open bottom grazing for summer, 13x19 greenhouse for winter)?
How big of a space do I need for isolation pens to determine who is still laying (2-10 eggs/day) and for possible breeding (I don't feel like this a huge concern, yet)?
I have done a rather poor job keeping track of which chicken is which year (going to try zip-ties, they took their bands off) so I am not certain which ones are daughters and who is not. This makes the continued breeding of my current rooster questionable for sustainability (right?). Assuming it is viable to have more than one rooster in the previously stated spaces, will it be enough diversity to not worry about inbreeding?

 

[Acre4Me]

My current thoughts are to get a mix of breeds (Easter Egger, Plymouth Rock, Welsumer, Wyandotte, Leghorn)

Sounds great! We did this and have 7 breeds currently:
Black Australorp, Barred Rock, SLW, Black Jersey Giant, EE, Legbar, White Rock. We had leghorns, but they were skittish and flighty, and we did not care for them.

How big of a rooster is too big for a given sized hen? Same question, but hens for roosters.
How many roosters do I need for ~30 hens to be popping out fertile eggs?

We have a large BJG rooster (currently 11lbs) expected full weight to be 13lbs plus when finished growing. The rest of our hens appear to have fertile eggs, and their legs haven't broken yet.

I have done a rather poor job keeping track of which chicken is which year (going to try zip-ties, they took their bands off)

Wing bands are useful and can be permanent. Zip ties (in our experience) get dirty and are hard to see when they are sitting or roosting. However, we have never used wing bands as are goals are not to breeds/keep track of the breeding at this point.

Good Luck!

 

[Mrs. K]

I have a 20 x 30 run for a dozen chickens - so to me, a 12 x 12 would be way too small for 30 birds, and the rule of thumb is 10 sq ft per bird. The tightest set up, needs to fit the flock as if you get hit by predators, or are going to be gone for a few days, you need to confine your birds in enough space. If you can add to that by free-ranging that is great, but you cannot expect free-ranging to help you cheat on too small of set ups.

For me, 2 roosters per 30 birds should be fine. I would not worry about inbreeding for years and years to come. Most chicks are not true brother and sisters, and certainly not full brother and sisters. In backyard, limited laying, one or two clutches a year, with eggs from multiple hens.. there is enough genetic variety that at worse you will see a loss in eggs per year, or weight gained, or longevity but not an extra leg (jk). It would take very careful tracking to see a noticeable difference.

I think those breeds will get along just fine.

If you pick up your birds, and find their pelvic bones, you can tell who is currently laying. Cull the non-layers first.

As for meat on a rooster, the dual purpose breeds are suppose to be good for this, but they are no where near a meat bird. I have tried many. TO me, the meat is tougher or firmer too, perfect for stews, soups and casseroles, but not frying or grilling. Some people like it, I just don't.

Mrs K

 

[Ridgerunner]

Look through Henderson’s Breed Chart to get an idea of mature size. Leghorns will not compare well if you want meat. Easter Eggers are not a breed but maybe the hatchery you get them from has an approximate mature size. Most do.

http://www.sagehenfarmlodi.com/chooks/chooks.html

As long as you get full-sized fowl breed hens don't worry about a rooster being too big. As part of the mating act the hen squats. This gets her body onto the ground so the rooster's weight goes into the ground through her body, not just the legs. That's nature's way of protecting the hens.

It's really hard to say how many roosters you need for 30 hens to keep all eggs fertile. Age and personality of the rooster makes a difference, younger roosters are usually more active than older roosters. The hen's personalities can make a difference too, some are more likely to squat than others. Dad kept a flock of one roster and 25 to 30 hens and practically all the eggs were fertile. Those free ranged. Hatcheries use a ratio of about one rooster to 10 hens to assure fertile eggs but they use the pen breeding method. That's where they may have 20 roosters in a pen with 200 hens. They keep track of fertility and add another rooster, usually a younger one, if they need to. The only way to know in your unique situation is to try it and check fertility.

I don't know that I'd want 30 hens without a rooster in a 12x12 pen. Integrating a bunch of chicks in that area may be challenging too. You might want to eliminate some of those older hens. Not sure by what you mean by open bottom grazing.

No one can give you any guarantees as to whether two or more roosters can get along in that space but darn that is tight. I would not try. Sometimes two or more roosters can get along in a fairly small space, especially if they are raised together. But the more room they have the better. Your odds really improve if they can get out of sight of each other.

Not sure if you are north or south of the equator and how well your hens should be laying. At the age of yours they can cut back on laying so they may not lay every day even if they are still laying. I'm not sure isolation nests are that good a method for you to try but one hen will be OK by herself for a few days in a large dog crate or something similar in size.. You might do a search on trap nests. If a hen goes into a nest to lay she is trapped until you release her. If you are around during the day it might be a decent way to determine which ones are laying and how often they lay.

There are other ways to at least determine which hens are laying. @aart has a write-up with details on this that she likes to copy. Australorp have black legs so the yellow pigment method will not work. If they are laying the vent will be fairly large, soft, and moist. If they are not laying the vent will be tight and dry. This difference is pretty obvious when you see it. This will not tell you how often they lay but it can tell you which ones are not now laying. Similarly the distance between pelvic bones is a good clue of whether they are laying or not but does not give you frequency.

A standard method used for thousands of years on small farms all over the world is to keep replacement cockerels and pullets from a small flock for several generations. The more chickens you have the longer you can go without loss of genetic diversity (inbreeding) issues. Don't keep defective birds, select your best as breeders. You should be able to easily go four or five generations without issues. Then bring in a new rooster to reset genetic diversity and start over.

 

[aart]

There are other ways to at least determine which hens are laying. @aart has a write-up with details on this that she likes to copy.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/who-is-laying-and-who-is-not-butt-check.73309/

 

[Sohala]

Sounds great! We did this and have 7 breeds currently:
Black Australorp, Barred Rock, SLW, Black Jersey Giant, EE, Legbar, White Rock. We had leghorns, but they were skittish and flighty, and we did not care for them.

I am hoping to be able to tell them apart easier... I can reliably identify one hen right now... I did read that about leghorns, I currently don't intend to breed them (being white eggs I can avoid brooding them), but I thought I would give them a shot.

We have a large BJG rooster (currently 11lbs) expected full weight to be 13lbs plus when finished growing. The rest of our hens appear to have fertile eggs, and their legs haven't broken yet.

You are a bit further north than I am, but how do your giants handle heat?

Wing bands are useful and can be permanent. Zip ties (in our experience) get dirty and are hard to see when they are sitting or roosting. However, we have never used wing bands as are goals are not to breeds/keep track of the breeding at this point.

My original goal was to keep track of who was who, with numbered legbands. At this point I am going to settle for telling how old they are.

I have a 20 x 30 run for a dozen chickens - so to me, a 12 x 12 would be way too small for 30 birds, and the rule of thumb is 10 sq ft per bird. The tightest set up, needs to fit the flock as if you get hit by predators, or are going to be gone for a few days, you need to confine your birds in enough space. If you can add to that by free-ranging that is great, but you cannot expect free-ranging to help you cheat on too small of set ups.

Not sure by what you mean by open bottom grazing.

In my haste, I fear I mislabeled the 12x12, it is a mobile tractor with nestboxes tucked into a peaked roof. They only get to free-range under supervision, I feel like I have a high enough death rate without the additional exposer to predators.

Integrating a bunch of chicks in that area may be challenging too.

Brooding and growing is done in a separate tractor; integration happens in the greenhouse as winter is coming around (so I can cull the cockerels at the same time).

As for meat on a rooster, the dual purpose breeds are suppose to be good for this, but they are no where near a meat bird. I have tried many. TO me, the meat is tougher or firmer too, perfect for stews, soups and casseroles, but not frying or grilling. Some people like it, I just don't.

My skill at sexing chicks is non-existent, so I just let them all grow-up and get some meat out of it.

Not sure if you are north or south of the equator and how well your hens should be laying. At the age of yours they can cut back on laying so they may not lay every day even if they are still laying.

Oh, I never set that... I live in Kansas, so winter right now, but the girls are a fair bit warmer than the outside temperature most days.

Thank you for the information on determining if a hen is laying.

I am glad to hear I shouldn't fear inbreeding for sometime still.