Farm Doesn't Vaccinate for Marek's

[InfiniteChicken]

Hello - I am a soon-to-be first-time chicken owner and have some questions about Marek's. I've read various posts on the forums (including a very long thread on Marek's) but am still not sure what to do. We live in the Bay Area and are really looking forward to having a very small flock (3-4 hens) of backyard chickens. We've ordered 6 chicks from a local family farm called Alchemist Farm that we're picking up in late August. After placing the order, I learned that they don’t vaccinate their chicks. Here’s the explanation they provide on their website:

“We have each of our birds tested by the state twice a year to be free of diseases so we know we are providing our customers with the healthiest birds possible. We do not vaccinate for Mareks disease because the vaccine that small scale breeders like us have access to is one that is not as potent as those of larger scale hatcheries. The vaccine can offer a degree of protection for a flock but stress is the number one thing that can harm a flock. Mareks is everywhere in the soil and it can only take hold in a chicken if they have a weakened immune system. We do everything we can to ensure that our birds are healthy including fresh water, food, pasture and full sunshine daily. All our chicks and adult birds are given vitamins/electrolytes and a monthly apple cider vinegar “wormer” in their water monthly to make sure they are in good shape. None of our birds are put into breeding cages or pens, all breeds are kept in separate parts of our property in mobile chicken trailers so they can be moved to fresh pasture and free range in their zone without the issue of cross breeding.”

I'm having trouble figuring out how to react to this and what steps we should take. How worried should we be? We're excited about this farm and the breeds we've selected, but should we find somewhere else? Should we try to figure out how to vaccinate them on our own (which I sense would be difficult)? Should we just hope for the best? From what I've read, I think opinions might vary and that people might view this as this a personal decision. But as a newbie, I would so appreciate hearing thoughts from others on this because I'm having trouble assessing the risks. Thank you so much for any thoughts you may have.

 

[nuthatched]

Mareks is not a common ailment, and birds can survive it.
How I understand it, The vaccine is a live vaccine, it doesn't keep your birds from getting or spreading mareks, it just makes the symptoms less and the chances of survival greater. The birds *technically* have mareks after vaccination and can spread it to other birds, so most people who start with vaccinated birds, usually keep getting vaccinated birds. I used to vaccinate for mereks but I don't anymore.
You can't vaccinate the chicks when they reach you as the time sensitive window will be gone.
It's not something that I worry about, really. The testing they're speaking of is npip, national poultry improvement plan, you can't legally ship birds without its certification, all good breeders and hatcheries should have this.
I've heard good things of Alchemist farms, they have good quality and healthy birds, but they're way too expensive for me, especially for straight run.

 

[McChooky]

Recognizing the symptoms of this disease & isolating any infected birds can prevent it spreading to your whole flock. Vaccinated birds have fewer symptoms than unvaccinated birds generally but both can be symptom free. My current flock will the last I ever vaccinate for Mareks disease because vaccinated & unvaccinated chickens alike can get it & spread it as long as they live.The longer they live the more they spread it.The way I see it they're better off dying sooner than living longer & spreading disease the rest of their life.

 

[arizona_chicken_noob]

I am a relative newcomer to chickens (just less than a year) and I can't shed any light on the science about Mareks. But I can share some of what I have learned about chicken mortality.

When I placed my initial order of 6 chicks from a hatchery, I was very keen to tick the box for Mareks Vaccination. From how I saw it, these are my new critter pets and if 50 cents and a box-tick is what helps them live a full and healthy life, well then of course I am going to say yes to that. Especially since you only have the first day of life to decide. Even a low-symptom full life would be better than chancing a full-flock tragedy.

I spent many hours each week raising those chicks in an extra bedroom and trying to win their trust. We transitioned to outdoor life and everything was sublime. They had a small secure run but were also given a lot of backyard roaming time. "How could anyone not have chickens?" I wondered. This all changed when, after a late night at city hall and a coop door left open, they started their day at dawn and 4 of the 6 were massacred by coyotes.

A second shipment of chicks was ordered, again dutifully vaccinated, and the raising began again. The door was never left open overnight but you know what? The predators found new and sneaky ways... sometimes even waiting seconds after I walked in the back door.... to do what nature compels them to do.

It completely changed the way I thought about chicken keeping. And not entirely for the better, because it's really fun to let them roam around the yard and I never wanted to be a "chicken terrarium" person. I still don't. But you might have to deal with death, and make new plans. This article "Dealing With Chicken Mortality" has been very therapeutic! (Should not be paywalled? Ping me if you can't see it)

At the same time, I did see on this board another keeper in my general area whose flock (all named ) contracted Marek's and their poor children did have to watch each beloved pet succumb. Tragic.

I think that the point of all this is that while these may be chickens that you have for their full natural life (and you would want them to be healthy), it's also quite possible that these will just be your first set of chickens. There is also value to supporting a local business and getting stock known to do well in your area.

"To vaccinate or not to vaccinate" might just be a decision you get to make more than once.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I personally vaccinate chicks I get from the hatchery since they don't spread the disease if they get vaccinated and don't contract it. They can still contract it, and will then spread it, but vaccinating doesn't mean your flock is now contaminated.

I don't stress about my own birds being vaccinated if I hatch them out myself. I don't buy juveniles or adults from places that vaccinated their birds, just because the vaccine hides most symptoms, so they could have it and pass it to mine without anyone knowing until my unvaccinated birds started dying off.

I know it's kinda confusing and may nit make sense,, I just figured I would explain my process

 

[McChooky]

In one research study( Venugopal Nair & Andrew Read) infected vaccinated & unvaccinated chickens with 5 different strains & found vaccinated chickens shed thousand times the usual number of the most viral viruses and suppressed the weaker strains where the unvaccinated chickens died before spreading it. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...es-enhance-spread-of-deadlier-chicken-viruses