Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

Adding to the above post....... If you have breeds that take a little longer to mature/lay, you may need to hatch earlier. A few will sometimes hold out till the days start getting longer but most of mine start laying at about the age they should no matter the time of year or daylight hours.

which breeds/lines are you refering to??

 

[Beekissed]

DO you have the magic wand to combine the hatchery stock with heritage?

I'd like to try breeding a great heritage line cock over some utility line hatchery girls and see what pops out. That's how they improve beef herds...they invest in really good bulls or semen from good bulls and then breed them to their scrub cows to slowly improve herd genetics without having to buy high dollar cows. Same with sheep...they will breed a good hair sheep ram to take the wool off of woolly breed ewes and to increase their hardiness, birthing ease and twinning capabilities.

Why not start with hens that lay well instead of trying to breed thousands to get a few that lay well? Then correct their lines with the good form of the cock. I know the hatchery stock WRs I had were pretty sharp on form, size, laying, hardiness and feathering despite their coming from the wrong side of the hatch. Just needed the rough rubbed off by breeding to a fancy pants heritage dude.

Too bad all my WRs from that source have grown old and been culled. The last one will be culled this spring.

 

[Zanna]

which breeds/lines are you refering to??

My hatchery leghorns in my layer flock start at about 16 - 18 weeks as well as my leghorn/New Hampshire crosses, my New Hampshires start at about 20 weeks and laid very well as pullets this winter, my BCM take a little longer to get going and will hold over if I don't get my timing right but usually about 24 weeks. My old line of Delawares which I am no longer working with laid all through the winter, even through molt. The new line of Kathinmo's that I am now starting with were very slow to develop/lay. I received them as chicks first week in April last year and they just started laying two months ago.

 

[Arielle]

I agree, you certainly need to get them laying before the older birds are molting. You can get stuck waiting until spring before they get going. That is expensive.

Winter laying is largely genetic, and partly management. Other than artificial lights, you can make sure the house gets plenty of sun in the winter. It does make a difference. A house sighted in winter shade gets less light than one with a clear southern exposure.

Identifying warmer parts of the yard helps moderate winter temperature's effects. In the south, the same location is a concern in the summer. Nothing comes without a cost.

Nutrition plays a part. Winter layers often do not have the access to the greens they might in longer day seasons.

A bird "feels" better when they have access to sunshine and fresh greens. Maximizing those two in the winter does help. A little cod liver oil does not hurt.

Some birds are better low light layers than others. For some reason my Catalanas are good winter layers. I still do not have a good feel for them. I had some odd winter molting and I hatched some too early, and they went into molt. I can give a more accurate picture in a couple years. I have seen enough to know that they are better winter layers than many I have had. Others have had this experience, so I am not alone.

Bee was right when she connected it to how good of layers they are anyways. A drop off in laying for some is as good as others are. That is a factor.

Mostly it goes back to the genetics of the line. It is not easy to improve upon either. The best you can do is identify the better winter layers (which often is the better layers overall), and test the males. That would be quite the process for a single trait. Alternately, you can avoid lights and hatch from late winter eggs. Over time, it seams that you would be inadvertently selecting for them.

That they molt out late and finish molting sooner can mean a few more out of season eggs, and identifying who comes into laying full steam early can mean teasing out a few more eggs. When it comes to winter laying without lights, small victories are big. You will not get full production, so teasing out an extra dozen from a single bird is an accomplishment.

Long term I would like to work without using artifical lighting as I am expecting the cost of energy to coninutally rise. THe news this morrning discussed Ukraine and Wstern Europe acquiring energy from North American-- WTH?? Instead of Russia. In my mind this puts further strain on our own supplies-- energy is too costly as it is IMO.

I need a better definition of "winter layer"-- that is a question open to anyone---

WHen you compare the catalina to the other breeds-- which breeds were they?? I do feel like finding productive breeds is a bit like looking for a needle in the proverbial haystack; so starting with a breed that has a history of winter laying seemed my best bet, hence the buckeyes. ANd speckled sussex, and buff orpingtons. BUt all of these are NOT noted as heavy producers even in the peak months of production. So again I am confused.

 

[gjensen]

If I was to go that route and have, I would start with a quad of standard bred birds and small flock of production birds.

I would take the standard bred male over the production females, choose a couple cockerels. I would give the females away. I would take those cockerels and put them over the standard bred females. I would hatch all that I could and get rid of all of the previous generations.

That would make them 3/4 of the standard bred birds, and I would move on from there. Culling hard to pick good type and production characteristics. I would not do this with a difficult color variety. I would also be choosy about what I did it with. Some hatchery birds are just too different.

You should have enough variability to have the benefit of both with good selection. Then it would be up to the skill of the breeder.

 

[gjensen]

Long term I would like to work without using artifical lighting as I am expecting the cost of energy to coninutally rise. THe news this morrning discussed Ukraine and Wstern Europe acquiring energy from North American-- WTH?? Instead of Russia. In my mind this puts further strain on our own supplies-- energy is too costly as it is IMO.

I need a better definition of "winter layer"-- that is a question open to anyone---

WHen you compare the catalina to the other breeds-- which breeds were they?? I do feel like finding productive breeds is a bit like looking for a needle in the proverbial haystack; so starting with a breed that has a history of winter laying seemed my best bet, hence the buckeyes. ANd speckled sussex, and buff orpingtons. BUt all of these are NOT noted as heavy producers even in the peak months of production. So again I am confused.

I would not worry about the Natural Gas, we have a surplus, and have access to plenty. I wish that we used more of it here.

We have the ability to drop the prices of energy which would be a good move, because we can access it cheaper than Russia. We have the ability to impact them economically, because they are dependent on energy exports. If we are smart, we will put ourselves in a more competitive position.

Concerning the Catalanas, and what I am comparing them to . . .I have tried a lot of things in the last 20years. Everything from commercial hybrids, misc. hatchery birds, and birds from small breeders.

It is not about the breed, but the strain. I have NHs that were excellent layers, poor layers, and in between.

Like I said, I will have a better idea in another year or two. Right now they are the best layers, to include the winter, that I have had other than the commercial hybrids.

If you are concerned with winter production just get productive birds, and manage them well. As easy as eggs are to store, it is not a huge concern in that respect anyways.

 

[ronott1]

which breeds/lines are you refering to??

Rocks! Get silver Pencil Rocks from Horstman. figure on 22 weeks to laying and pick mid Sept for the lay date.

Partridge Rocks will work too. They will lay very well for the first winter and will keep laying the second winter but not much.

That is without lights.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: If I am understanding this ROn, both the silver pencil and partridge rocks from Horstman are good winter layers the first year ( the pullet year) and somewhat productive the next year.

I was under the impression that all pullets will produce thru their first year if the timing is right-- or am I mistaken?

For eample, this last year all my pullets that hatched late in the summer started to lay about a month ago. THese are SS. BUt the year before, the pullets ( mixed breeds) started to lay in the fall and kept on going, really filling the gap.

I need to go stew on all this, again. lol

 

[ronott1]

If I am understanding this ROn, both the silver pencil and partridge rocks from Horstman are good winter layers the first year ( the pullet year) and somewhat productive the next year.

I was under the impression that all pullets will produce thru their first year if the timing is right-- or am I mistaken?

For eample, this last year all my pullets that hatched late in the summer started to lay about a month ago. THese are SS. BUt the year before, the pullets ( mixed breeds) started to lay in the fall and kept on going, really filling the gap.

I need to go stew on all this, again. lol

Yes, but even if you miss the first year Rocks will lay through the winter. They will lay a lot of big pretty eggs too.

Rocks are one of the best winter layers so if you want to get a heritage breed and make it a better winter layer, start with Rocks.

Silver Pencil Rocks are very pretty too!

Dick has been working with them for a long time and he strikes a good balance between production and Standard.

 

[gjensen]

Be careful about blanket statements about breeds. Some Rocks are decent layers and decent winter layers. Some are not that good of layers, and some are awful winter layers. Trust me.