Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[mayble]

There are not enough *good homes* for cats and dogs, and there are a lot more unwanted roosters out there that are not going to be able to find a *good home* than there are cats and dogs dying at the pound every day.

Very insightful post, with plenty for newbies to think about!
I am somewhat dumfounded by folks who refuse to think about eating chickens and all those "chicken rescues", "retirement farms", etc., but then I have to wonder if people from some other cultures have the same reaction when they see our animal shelters overflowing with perfectly edible dogs and cats. People in some Asian countries are breeding dogs strictly for meat, and we're over here spending millions on toys and trinkets, and writing them into our wills.
I guess it's all about the culture we are raised in. There are a lot of people raised in the contemporary American culture of supermarket food and Disney movies who don't connect the chicken nuggets they had for lunch with the little darlings scratching in their backyard.

 

[bnjrob]

Very insightful post, with plenty for newbies to think about!
I am somewhat dumfounded by folks who refuse to think about eating chickens and all those "chicken rescues", "retirement farms", etc., but then I have to wonder if people from some other cultures have the same reaction when they see our animal shelters overflowing with perfectly edible dogs and cats. People in some Asian countries are breeding dogs strictly for meat, and we're over here spending millions on toys and trinkets, and writing them into our wills.
I guess it's all about the culture we are raised in. There are a lot of people raised in the contemporary American culture of supermarket food and Disney movies who don't connect the chicken nuggets they had for lunch with the little darlings scratching in their backyard.

Exactly right. We are very much disconnected from our food - and to a lot of other things too. For too long, people have been able to avoid looking at the reality of things like what happens to the animals before they get turned into pieces of meat in a plastic wrapped package. And people don't stop to think about what happens to all the unwanted chickens from people like themselves that think it is cruel to kill and eat their own animals, but it's ok to foist the birds off on others or dump them somewhere in the country, or at the pound, when they don't want them any more. That's the culture we have - making choices but not wanting to take responsibility for the results of those choices when things get difficult.

Yes, you're right about the other cultures too. I would not eat a cat, dog, or horse, but other people do and it is no different to them than Americans eating hamburgers and fried chicken.

 

[Beekissed]

Very insightful post, with plenty for newbies to think about!
I am somewhat dumfounded by folks who refuse to think about eating chickens and all those "chicken rescues", "retirement farms", etc., but then I have to wonder if people from some other cultures have the same reaction when they see our animal shelters overflowing with perfectly edible dogs and cats. People in some Asian countries are breeding dogs strictly for meat, and we're over here spending millions on toys and trinkets, and writing them into our wills.
I guess it's all about the culture we are raised in. There are a lot of people raised in the contemporary American culture of supermarket food and Disney movies who don't connect the chicken nuggets they had for lunch with the little darlings scratching in their backyard.

VERY much agree with this. But just talk about eating dogs in America and the reaction is as if you spoke of eating little children. What is it about a person that can compartmentalize one animal as "food" and another as "family" and claiming that it is not cruel to eat one~ but horribly cruel and sick to eat the other? It's just irrational thinking. Even worse are those who think it's perfectly fine to eat a chicken that doesn't have a name but the minute you put a name on one, it's no longer humane to eat it.

It's all very confused and irrational thinking, IMO.

 

[gjensen]

Thank you for the in-depth reply,

I have checked the city ordinances and we're in such a rural area they allow everything from mules to cattle to bees with no restrictions other than not to be loud and to keep them fenced in. I'm good on that front.. and also, I'll definitely have the coops built before any purchases are made. I just like planning and getting all of my bases covered beforehand. I don't like the idea of getting a coop built and THEN just starting to look around for chicks.. but, I also won't be eating these birds.. they'll be pampered from most peoples perspectives and live LONG lives without being on the dinner table which is why I was wanting to purchase from the best bloodlines from the get go.. I'll still look into different hatcheries, I've heard cackles was the best, but I'm REALLY wanting the best chicks..

Are you speaking from a money saving standpoint or saying I might not be able to take care of them vs. hatchery raised chicks? I figured the better bred birds would be easier to take care of and more hardy leading to less disease and problems?

If you are interested in poultry as a hobby, then make a responsible start, and enjoy it. (The key word being responsible) Get what pleases you, and what seams best to you. They would be a possession of yours, on your place, and for your own reasons. If they are managed responsibly, who can find a fault? I am sure someone could, but it is not their place to impose their ideals.

When you post on internet sites, you get a lot of opinions. When you ask for them, that is what you get. A lot of opinions. We all have them, and our own ideologies. I have them.

Poultry is a fun hobby. We can make it sound otherwise with all of the misc. Poultry are easy to keep and take good care of. A good comprehensive book on the care of poultry goes a long ways. With the fundamentals established, they are easier than most animals. It is not as if they are exotic animals with exacting requirements. Anyone intelligent enough to ask questions, and search out answers is qualified to care for chickens.
That is not to say that there is no homework required. No new animal should be purchased off of a whim, without the proper knowledge, and facilities. It is irresponsible to acquire any living thing without knowing what is required. It is no small commitment, and it is not a short term commitment. I just do not want to make more of it than it is.

Breeding is another matter, and another level of responsibility. One thing at a time. There is enough of us that think they are doing good, but doing nothing good at all. I think that many of us like the idea of it more than any other thing.

The hobby could use some young, intelligent, breeders of poultry. Most of the good breeders are in their prime, or past their prime. If down the road you decided that was an interest of yours then go for it. It is probably best to grow into it, rather than jump into it.

If you get some birds, enjoy them. It is a hobby.

 

[gjensen]

VERY much agree with this. But just talk about eating dogs in America and the reaction is as if you spoke of eating little children. What is it about a person that can compartmentalize one animal as "food" and another as "family" and claiming that it is not cruel to eat one~ but horribly cruel and sick to eat the other? It's just irrational thinking. Even worse are those who think it's perfectly fine to eat a chicken that doesn't have a name but the minute you put a name on one, it's no longer humane to eat it.

It's all very confused and irrational thinking, IMO.

I can relate with the sentiment, but eating a dog is not high on my to do list. LOL.

 

[Beekissed]

Mine either.

Folks eat black bear and say it's good stuff, so dog may not be too far off from that. My dad ate dog meat while in the Korean war and didn't have much to say about it either way. He didn't know he was eating dog at the time, so I guess it's all in the mind.

 

[CodyP]

WHOA THERE...

You kinda went to extremes didn't ya? lol

All I said was that I wouldn't be eating the ones I initially purchased.. I don't know what the future holds but I'm only purchasing 5 chicks in the beginning and they will all be hens and I will only be taking eggs from them.. I have no problem humanely disposing of maimed chicks and when I mean you went to extremes you DEFINITELY did haha.. When I said they would be pampered under most peoples perspectives I meant that I'd be formulating their feed every week and have plenty of land and all the mealworms and crickets they want.. I plan on having a cricket and mealworm "farm".. not just for the chicks but I thought to most people that would be considered "pampered" I didn't think most people actually kept chickens indoors and literally "pampered" them.. I guess I mean I would "accommodate" them with a better life than letting them out to forage and come back at the end of the day to be put up..

my girlfriend and I will have over 500 acres to live on and do as we please upon graduating school. I won't have any problems with overcrowding and at the point we get "too many" birds they will be culled and eaten or fed to the dogs.. I never said I won't take them for meat later down the road.. just "these" birds.. which meant this initial purchase I'm about to make.. essentially I want to have these birds and breed hardy good layers that you could still show if you wanted to.. and I want the same bloodlines from my first purchase to pass to my children and grandchildren and so on.. Some would call that "romanticizing" but most individuals won't be working with the same variables in life that we will be.. everyone's circumstances are different in life and we've worked very hard at a young age to be set for the rest of our lives.. we plan on all livestock we have to be a constant "bettering" of that breed from the time we purchase the first stock until the family name ceases to exist.. goats, chickens, ducks, cattle, EVERYTHING down to our family pets will be bred for what we want and passed down and systematically catalogued in a master book.. again I wouldn't expect most people to understand this but it's what we want to do. The same will be with the crops we grow and seeds we save.

and another thing I absolutely don't believe in is vaccination of any sort or antibiotics.. PERIOD.. regardless of if it's for humans or livestock. ANY synthetically derived compound wont be touching/entering my animals so there won't be any sickly chickens here.. It's like varroa mites with bees.. the problem in the US won't get better until people stop trying to "treat" the problem.. there's no way nature can take it's course and REAL breeding programs can build resistance in the herd or flock.

I think you automatically assumed I would/wouldn't be doing certain things and that's not very productive when giving advice.. thanks for the warning though.. and thank you everyone else leaving your insight and giving advice. It's all taken in and food for thought and will be applied to my decision making.

 

[bnjrob]

I think you automatically assumed I would/wouldn't be doing certain things and that's not very productive when giving advice.. thanks for the warning though.. and thank you everyone else leaving your insight and giving advice. It's all taken in and food for thought and will be applied to my decision making.

If you knew how often I have people contacting us to help them after they've gotten into some sort of mess because they were not aware of the realities of poultry keeping - or keeping of animals in general, you would understand why I chose to be explicit in discussing these things just in case you were like the vast majority of people that get on this website thinking that chicken keeping is all about wearing sun bonnets and prairie dresses, carrying around their chickens in strollers, and having them wear diapers so they can come in the house to be part of the family. My husband is a veterinarian. People always assume that we are the people to come to when they have animal problems caused by their lack of knowledge or unwillingness to perform certain actions, or to spend money, to keep their animals healthy. When things go wrong, they often try to foist their unwanted animals, including chickens, on us, because they assume that a veterinarian has unlimited resources to take care of the animals that they no longer want. Working with rescue groups and seeing this on routine basis - it gets frustrating to see the increasingly larger numbers of people wanting to play urban farmer, but not thinking through just how difficult it can be, and then wanting someone to bail them out of their problem. And it's the animals that suffer for people's mistakes. I'm glad to see that you are looking at things in a more realistic light than so many folks out there and wish you luck as you work on your dreams.

 

[ronott1]

WHOA THERE...

You kinda went to extremes didn't ya? lol

All I said was that I wouldn't be eating the ones I initially purchased.. I don't know what the future holds but I'm only purchasing 5 chicks in the beginning and they will all be hens and I will only be taking eggs from them.. I have no problem humanely disposing of maimed chicks and when I mean you went to extremes you DEFINITELY did haha.. When I said they would be pampered under most peoples perspectives I meant that I'd be formulating their feed every week and have plenty of land and all the mealworms and crickets they want.. I plan on having a cricket and mealworm "farm".. not just for the chicks but I thought to most people that would be considered "pampered" I didn't think most people actually kept chickens indoors and literally "pampered" them.. I guess I mean I would "accommodate" them with a better life than letting them out to forage and come back at the end of the day to be put up..

my girlfriend and I will have over 500 acres to live on and do as we please upon graduating school. I won't have any problems with overcrowding and at the point we get "too many" birds they will be culled and eaten or fed to the dogs.. I never said I won't take them for meat later down the road.. just "these" birds.. which meant this initial purchase I'm about to make.. essentially I want to have these birds and breed hardy good layers that you could still show if you wanted to.. and I want the same bloodlines from my first purchase to pass to my children and grandchildren and so on.. Some would call that "romanticizing" but most individuals won't be working with the same variables in life that we will be.. everyone's circumstances are different in life and we've worked very hard at a young age to be set for the rest of our lives.. we plan on all livestock we have to be a constant "bettering" of that breed from the time we purchase the first stock until the family name ceases to exist.. goats, chickens, ducks, cattle, EVERYTHING down to our family pets will be bred for what we want and passed down and systematically catalogued in a master book.. again I wouldn't expect most people to understand this but it's what we want to do. The same will be with the crops we grow and seeds we save.

and another thing I absolutely don't believe in is vaccination of any sort or antibiotics.. PERIOD.. regardless of if it's for humans or livestock. ANY synthetically derived compound wont be touching/entering my animals so there won't be any sickly chickens here.. It's like varroa mites with bees.. the problem in the US won't get better until people stop trying to "treat" the problem.. there's no way nature can take it's course and REAL breeding programs can build resistance in the herd or flock.

I think you automatically assumed I would/wouldn't be doing certain things and that's not very productive when giving advice.. thanks for the warning though.. and thank you everyone else leaving your insight and giving advice. It's all taken in and food for thought and will be applied to my decision making.

It takes a bit to get used to the great posts on the heritage threads. A lot of the posts are for educating the masses since BYC is one of the top results that comes up when searching Google for chicken information.

They are really helpful and not often a direct response to the original post but a detailed set of information on the topic.

Hang in there with these guys and you will learn more than you ever imagined from them.

 

[TeaChick]

WOW.. I just read the first page of comments and this is where I need to be.. I'm just going to copy and paste my original first forum post into this thread because I feel like this is where it will garner more replies lol





hopefully, later my girlfriend and I will be able to buy the land we have our eyes on and we'll be able to have and do whatever we want.. unfortunately she's just now starting graduate school so we're in a starter home in a rural city.. we can't have roosters but hens will be doable..

any links to specific breeders are greatly appreciated!

If you have never had chickens before, I would suggest you start with day-old hatchery chicks to learn basic chicken-keeping. If you enjoy being a flock keeper, you can gradually upgrade your flock to the breed of your choice as time and finances permit. My parents, siblings and I have regularly ordered hatchery chicks over the past 40 years with uniformly good results; they are consistently healthy, vigorous and reasonably priced. These large companies are professionals and generally far more reliable than the poultry equivalent of puppy mills, no matter how cutesy their blogs or Facebook pages. I would also suggest you build all your coop/run before you bring home your first chick, and build it as strong and predator-proof as if their lives depend on it, (because it does!) But first and foremost, be certain your city ordinances, neighborhood covenants, rental agreement and the like will ALL permit chickens on your property.
Best wishes,
Angela

Hi, Cody,
I agree with Angela. I started w/ a mixed flock of the last 11 chicks that TSC had two years ago; about six months later I got two roosters (one mutt and one pure, but not the same breed as any of my hens) and last summer (about 15 mos into chickens) I ordered NHs from a hatchery. I'm glad I didn't learn on (read make my newbie mistakes on) high quality heritage chicks.
That's my limited experience, but I wish you all the best!
Tea Chick