Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Yellow House Farm]

On our other topic, I do not think we are quite there. That is ok, and it isn't important to me.

On this point, we are in agreement. I believe the same, and that is why I read this thread. That is, with selection, the right breed, and proper management. I at least believe that you can come out ahead.

I do not know that there is a market for meat in my area. These rural Southerners are practical. They are not going to pay much more for a chicken dinner. Many will pay a little more for eggs. My wife sells eggs, and it pays for enough feed to feed a flock. I sold enough eggs, chicks, and culls to pay for growing out the replacements. Now that isn't all of the misc. and time that comes with the process.
I would like to make enough improvement to pay for that misc. and my own meat and eggs. The meat and eggs (and fertilizer) being the profit. I think that it could be done. I have found that the "customers" that my wife has do not care what color the eggs are. They just want to know where they came from.

I do better selling plants, and do not put any effort into selling them. The word gets out that you have that hobby, and they prefer to get their blueberry plants, muscadines, etc from you vs. Lowes etc. My birds contribute to that effort. My point is that it becomes a system, where one contributes to another. We produce more fruit than we need so guess who enjoys the extras.

I do not think that you can do anymore good for a breed than to breed them correctly and use them in a system that they fit. Most of the breeds were bred to do something, and their original developers knew what they were doing.

I think a challenge is that many of the more modern breeds were selected to perform well on cheap processed grains etc. I am of the opinion that these grains will continue to get more expensive. I believe that the American breeds can and should continue to have a role, but I also believe that this is cause to give the Mediterranean breeds a second look, particularly when they tend to be overlooked. I think the Anconas are an excellent choice, and this thinking is one of the reasons I decided to give Catalanas a shot. Kind of a middle ground between my New Hampshires, and the lighter Mediterraneans. The Mediterraneans just make sense when your primary goal is to produce eggs.

I flock of well bred Anconas would be far and away more appealing than a flock of the commercial hybrids on range. Better suited for it to.

Well, maybe on day we'll find each other at the Ohio National or some other show, and we can analyze the heck out of the Australorps and the New Hampshires. It would be both fun and a really good exercise.

I think that you're right. The trick lies in rediscovering the Mediterraneans and, I'd say, most of the old-school Continentals. The English, Americans, Asiatics, and some of the Continentals are better suited for "meat with some eggs" production. I like it when the meat line can do the brooding, while the layers are busy doing what they're good for.

I'm actually quite interested in seeing what will happen with your Catalana project. With a little selection, they'll dress out nicely for 13 wk spatchcocks. It's actually on of my favorite ways to eat heritage fowl. We'll do a spatchcoked Ancona 13-15 weeks, slowly BBQ-ed in homemade dressing or marinated in the left over canning juices from our season's vegetables. It's so darn good. I bet the Catalans would be mouth watering.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Here is a question. Prior to eating a bird do they soften up the meat fibers if you put say two or three birds in a 4x4 pen and keep them from getting exercises or is this a old wives tail. If you pick one up off the ground thats been free ranging are they tough in the legs ect or no difference. When I got started my wife did not like my big red males to eat. She said they were to tough. FREE RANGE birds.

Yes, I find that if you pen your birds with Fat-n-Finish for a couple of week before slaughtering at 24-26 weeks, you'll end up with a more enjoyable product to work with in the kitchen. The next step, is to make sure one does the right preparation for the right age group.

Still, though a six-month roaster is a stonger animal that a 7-wk Cornish X and the fibers are just more substantial. It think it's important to call to mind the differences between veal and beef and then realize that that is literally the difference between corporate chicken and heritage roasters. Veal is veal, and beef is beef. The former are more tender; the latter are more flavorful. Heritage chick just tastes better and it doesn't need saline treatments and what have you to enhance flavor.

 

[colburg]

Quote: I was reading your list of ways to cook up chicken to my wife and when she heard coq au vin, she piped up "Ooh, I've always wanted to try that, I just need to find a recipe." So would you mind sending a recipe for coq au vin? We'd also like to see others recipes for coq au vin and spatchcock too. Y'all can PM them so the thread doesn't get hijacked.

I also have concerns of "getting my wife inline" with the whole eatin chickens aspect. We tried a couple of Cornish X's last fall that I thought turned out pretty good, but she called them kinda tough. Does anyone have tips for cooking home grown chicken that'll ease her transition? Also, what about the tenderness of various breeds? Are all heritage breeds going to be the same or are some different? This type of information is missing on all of the breed descriptions I can find.

My daughter and I went to Tractor Supply today and she wanted a chicken book for her and her sister. The best illustrated one was http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Illustrated-Guide-Poultry-Breeds/dp/1580176674 . But for $25, I was wondering if the SOP has pics so that my wife and I could get the details and the girls could get the pics and make it worht the $60 or so?

Colburg, I am on the other side of the country, but I used to make a trip to the Organ/Franklin Mts every year. I love it out there. Maybe I will make it for the "monsoon" come Aug., Sept.

All of Yellow House's suggestions tips are excellent. I wonder where he gets NHs and Australorps as the same, less color. LOL.

I would like to add that I like the idea of marrying the region with the breed. The Mediterraneans, particularly the Spanish breeds, are well suited for the South West. There advantages are not just egg laying and heat tolerance. They forage far and wide. A Spanish breed would be a good fit, for the South West, and they are an overlooked group in the suburban chicken movement. I would like to suggest Minorcas, Catalanas, etc.

I like that most of the Mediterraneans are far free rangers. Another thought comes to mind that should also be considered. If we put all this work into maintaining/developing our own strain of chicken, and y'all have mentioned needing to sell birds as "heritage" or true to form, what breeds tend to sell well as hatching eggs or day olds?

I would like to make enough improvement to pay for that misc. and my own meat and eggs. The meat and eggs (and fertilizer) being the profit. I agree with most of this, except that I would need 30,000 chickens on 15 acres to meet the nitrogen needs of the orchard. Most profit will have to come from eggs and meat. Improvement can also include improving the "freerangeability" of the land. Planting perinneal chicken food helps a lot.

I do not think that you can do anymore good for a breed than to breed them correctly and use them in a system that they fit. Most of the breeds were bred to do something, and their original developers knew what they were doing. Is this info available anywhere? In the SOP maybe?

I think a challenge is that many of the more modern breeds were selected to perform well on cheap processed grains etc. I am of the opinion that these grains will continue to get more expensive. I believe that the American breeds can and should continue to have a role, but I also believe that this is cause to give the Mediterranean breeds a second look, particularly when they tend to be overlooked. I think the Anconas are an excellent choice, and this thinking is one of the reasons I decided to give Catalanas a shot. Kind of a middle ground between my New Hampshires, and the lighter Mediterraneans. The Mediterraneans just make sense when your primary goal is to produce eggs. What about for DP? You suggested them for my DP and Yellow House(I think) raises Anconas for meat as well. Now you're suggesting them for primarily eggs... Not trying to be argumentative, just wanting clarification.

 

[Arielle]

I have a silver speckeld hamburg-- don't think he is technically a mediteranean bird, perhaps the dutch version of. A more stream line creature, quick on his feet, and supposed to lay lots of sm-med sized eggs, As I compare my hatchery boy, who is tiny and cant be caught except at roosting time, to the standard bred male that I saw in November at the NOrtheast Bantam show, the latter bird was three times the size of my bird.

My point is, it seems some of these flighty types are still substantial birds with potentially a lot of meat. I was rethinking SSH until my rooster got frostbite on his waddles.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I was reading your list of ways to cook up chicken to my wife and when she heard coq au vin, she piped up "Ooh, I've always wanted to try that, I just need to find a recipe." So would you mind sending a recipe for coq au vin? We'd also like to see others recipes for coq au vin and spatchcock too. Y'all can PM them so the thread doesn't get hijacked.

Well, I'll do it here. Then it's only once, and others who are curious can find it. Take on roaster or stewing fowl. It doesn't matter which, but the age of the bird will dictate how long you have to cook it. Cut it into parts. Here's a video for cutting it up: LINK. Brown the meat in a big, deep frying pan. You're not cooking it, you're just browning the meat. Remove the pieces and put them in between two plates. If the grizzle in your pan is black and chunky, pour it off; otherwise retain it. If you need grease, add some oliv oil to the pan. Sautee a diced onion until it starts to become translucent. Add two gloves of finely diced garlic. Sautee them together for a minute. Don't allow the garlic to scorch. Add a cup or so of diced salt pork. Sautee. Add a couple of cups of diced mushrooms and suatee for another little bit until they soften. Deglaze the pan by pouring a little wine in the pan and, as the pan bubbles aggresively, with a spatula scrape the bottom clean. Put the pieces of chicken back in the back in the pan. Add add salt, pepper, a bay leaf or two and some chopped parsely. Allow it to come up to temp, but then place the pan on your smallest burner on low heat. Allow the meat to simmer, which resembles a light even soft, boil. Depending on the age of the bird you might have to cook it for an hour; you might need to cook it for a couple of hours or more. When the thighs are soft, it's done. At no point does one hard boil heritage poultry. This causes the muscles to contract and show their strength--i.e. they become tough. One must cook heirtage fowl gently, like relaxing strong muscles in a jacuzzi. Tough, i.e. strong, birds can still be tender; they just need to be relaxed. Most importantly, this kind of cooking is one that is mastered. Go into it expecting it not to be perfect, ut each time assess it and discuss it. Slowly one develops a technique. Usually it takes me about 5 tmes doing a preparation before I truly begin to feel that I have a handle on it. Don't do it once, have it be imperfect, and then draw conclusions. It's not fair to you or to the poultry. Anyone can cook a veal-product Cornish X. There's an art to heritage poultry that only comes with time on task.

I also have concerns of "getting my wife inline" with the whole eatin chickens aspect. We tried a couple of Cornish X's last fall that I thought turned out pretty good, but she called them kinda tough. See the above comment. They are stronger, thus they are different. Compare veal with a porterhouse steak. They're just not the same, even if they both come from cows. Heritage roasters are more toothsome; they are essentially al dente. Does anyone have tips for cooking home grown chicken that'll ease her transition? Use liquid preps until you feel confident that you can do it well, and then, just accept that once in a while you'll screw it up, and that's OK. Also, what about the tenderness of various breeds? Tenderness has to do with age, and each age has an appropriate cooking time and method. Are all heritage breeds going to be the same or are some different? No, there are some rather pronounced differences between different breeds, much like the differences between heirloom apples. This type of information is missing on all of the breed descriptions I can find.

My daughter and I went to Tractor Supply today and she wanted a chicken book for her and her sister. The best illustrated one was http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Illustrated-Guide-Poultry-Breeds/dp/1580176674 . But for $25, I was wondering if the SOP has pics so that my wife and I could get the details and the girls could get the pics and make it worht the $60 or so? Spend the money on the SOP. The above book is full of pathetic birds.

I like that most of the Mediterraneans are far free rangers. Another thought comes to mind that should also be considered. If we put all this work into maintaining/developing our own strain of chicken, and y'all have mentioned needing to sell birds as "heritage" or true to form, what breeds tend to sell well as hatching eggs or day olds? The good ones. Good birds sell. Once you choose a breed. Coose one variety. Make it awesome and farm worthy, and people will want it. Quality sells itself.

I don't know what you mean by "DP", but when I talked about Anconas it's not to say that they're a great choice for a market roaster breed. It's to say that at home, where preconceived ideas are able to be shelved, and presentation takes a back seat to yumminess, the reed you choose will be good enough.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I have a silver speckeld hamburg-- don't think he is technically a mediteranean bird, perhaps the dutch version of. A more stream line creature, quick on his feet, and supposed to lay lots of sm-med sized eggs, As I compare my hatchery boy, who is tiny and cant be caught except at roosting time, to the standard bred male that I saw in November at the NOrtheast Bantam show, the latter bird was three times the size of my bird.

My point is, it seems some of these flighty types are still substantial birds with potentially a lot of meat. I was rethinking SSH until my rooster got frostbite on his waddles.

Yes, well bred egg-tiype birds still have a meatiness to them without, perhaps, being a centerpiace roast. Still, they certainly look like wild gamebird, and what's wrong with that? It's not all about size...all the time.

Hamburgs are an egg-laying Continental breed, sort of like a northern Ancona. When you have a chance, pick up a copy of the SOP. You'll defintely enjoy it.

 

[Zanna]

You bring up a point that I have been trying to get to : which birds do well , say foraging, rather than standing around the feed bucket sucking down expensive grain.

I know this isn't your favortite breed YHF, but I would like to bring up the Buckeye for a moment. My understanding of this breed is that is wasn't designed for the showroom but rather a homesteading situation. THe ABLC picked this breed for what ever reason, perhaps it was Don Schrider that actually picked this breed, and from what I understand, he was able to increase the rate of gain and put on a full pound of body weight more in three years of selection. ( I"m sorry I can't remember where I read this. ) In many respects this bird fits my needs: forager, small comb, thrifty, camoflauged, spry, and easy going temperament, meaty and some eggs.

COmments welcome.

I do know that some breeds forage better than others, my leghorns and delawares are out more and ranging farther than than my bcm for sure. One thing I have observed over 6 years of raising/breeding chickens, is that regardless of breed, if I have a broody who is a good forager, her chicks, no matter what breed, never hang out in the coop. My birds when not locked up for breeding have 11 acres to free-range all daylight hours consisting of woodlot, hayfield, oak trees, etc., very diverse. The broody raised birds leave the coop at daylight as soon as the auto door opens, spend portions of each day in all of the different areas and return to the coop at dusk. The ones that don't forage as well go out for a couple of hours, back to the coop and eat/nap and do this several times all day long.............

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THe SOP was on my CHristmas list-- DH missed it and bought me a pretty set of china.

I'm slowly coming torealize that each of these old birds had a purpose, It is just a very slow process to peg the right bird into the correct hole.

I'm still lost over the development of the single combed birds in NEw england ( NH, RIR) --- was the weather warmer 100-150 years ago, or the pea comb and rose comb not really exist here, or perhaps it was frowned upon? Generally my single combs do ok if they are in a 4 sided coop with lots of bodies; if a boy decides to camp out for the night his comb tips get frost bite; then poor SSH , he was out for the night in the horse trailer ( his favorite spot) and his huge waddles got frostbite.

HOw did homesteaders manage their roosters? Has anyone read old history on managing single comb roosters in New ENgland winters?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

THe SOP was on my CHristmas list-- DH missed it and bought me a pretty set of china.

I'm slowly coming torealize that each of these old birds had a purpose, It is just a very slow process to peg the right bird into the correct hole.

I'm still lost over the development of the single combed birds in NEw england ( NH, RIR) --- was the weather warmer 100-150 years ago, or the pea comb and rose comb not really exist here, or perhaps it was frowned upon? Generally my single combs do ok if they are in a 4 sided coop with lots of bodies; if a boy decides to camp out for the night his comb tips get frost bite; then poor SSH , he was out for the night in the horse trailer ( his favorite spot) and his huge waddles got frostbite.

HOw did homesteaders manage their roosters? Has anyone read old history on managing single comb roosters in New ENgland winters?

Well, they got frostbite. Also, a lot of the big chicken houses up here had a level of insulation. The RIR exist in both SC and RC since the beginning, but they were developed in and around Little Compton, which, from where I stand, is almost Florida compared to our weather. On practice was to simply dub them before winter set in. The frostbite on the wattles will heal.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I find the weather here ( southern Mass) to be mild-- often cold rain, or wet snow. Often mud in the middle of winter.

I didn't think of dubbing. SInce that would be for the roosters only that would be do-able in a big flock.

Why didn't the NH develop the RC? I would have thought with the colder weather you experience Rc would be preffered.