Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Extra Java]

I have another question...since I've never hatched out this amount of chicks before. What's a good system for integrating chicks into the flock? I'm waiting 2 months...is this too early or late? If I have a gap between hatches then, I have difficulty integrating the younger chicks together with the older chicks and the older and any chicks into the main flock. I even tried moving the entire pen into a larger pasture but they continue to take turns ganging up on the youngest and won't let them out of the coop. I think I'll be hen raising the rest.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Oh I would have to respectfully disagree. It sort of depends why you want chickens. If you want a show bird, then Rocks, Reds, NHs & Wyandottes are probably what you go with, for sure. There's more of them, a bigger gene pool to play & more breeders. However, if you want a hardy, tough farm/ homestead fowl, the Dominique is probably one of the best. Certainly, having four toes instead of five is an advantage. For eggs, meat, sitters or mother hens, a Dominique has it all. Their cuckoo feathering is predator resistant; appearing almost bluish & confusing at a distance, they blend into the background. They are a good size & the oldest of the American breeds. And I have seen many a Dominique rooster rule the yard. IMHO, the Royalty of the farm, of the rural life are the hardy, tough breeds that free range well & can hustle a lot of their own food (and some of the ones that do not get as much attention), such as Dominiques, Buckeyes, Chanteclers. When you see good ones of these breeds, you know you've seen something rare. Just my thoughts.

Well, in the name of friendly banter, I'd have to say not at all.

"Hardy, tough farm/homestead fowl" is any breed you want it to be, so long as you're going to select for it to be hardy and tough. Barring the disadvantage of single combs in wet, cold weather, every breed I've mentioned and you mentioned is equally capable of being bred to be hardy and tough. The Chanteclers might have a step up in Quebec, where I used to live so I understand the meaning of il fait frette, but Quebec notwithstanding, the only breed that might be able to lord "hardy and tough" over another breed as a breed characteristic as opposed to a strain characteristic is--perhaps--the Games. Incidentally, the Dominique was historically found to be less hardy than the Barred Rock, which was considered in all ways its superior. However, hardiness, as I mentioned, is a trait for selection, and although the Rock was considered superior, the fact is that both can be equally selected for general hardiness.

Four toes versus five toes is of absolutely no importance at all. There is no advantage or disadvantage to one or the other.

"For eggs, meat, sitters or mother hens, a Dominique has it all" Every hen on this page should be broody, and quality of broodiness is a strain characteristic, not a breed characteristic. You're selecting for it, or you're not. As for eggs, the Dominque does have a good body type for eggs, is it better than the RIR's body type? Probably not. Does it equal the Rock or NH for meat? No. Is it better for eggs type-wise, probably not, equal perhaps.

Predator resistant coloring? I'd say absolutely not. I put zero credence in feather color in most chickens to be of any value at all, and if I were to, it would go to a Partridge Rock. And if the Dominique were feather promoted, it wouldn't make it better than the Barred Rock to whom it is inferior for meat and no more than equal for eggs.

They are a good size? This is completely subjective. I agree with you, but then I think that well-bred Mediterranean fowl are of a good size, too. Neither rivals Dorkings, Sussex, Rocks, RIRs, or NHs in this department.

They are the oldest American breed? Sure, but this is not a virtue of quality; it's a fetish of preference--one I understand, mind you, I'm a Dorking lover, but it doesn't mean squat quality-wise.

Ruling the yard in any cockbird is of little value, and there's nothing in a Dominque make-up that makes it genetically more powerful or more capable of "ruling the yard" than a RIR. One could, however, say that RIRs and NHs, deriving their color and hardiness from the Malay have much more actual genetic potential to rule the roost.

Now, historically, Dominiques, Buckeyes, and Chanteclers do not belong together. Dominiques are the only breed of the three that can make claims to the old-school kind of hard knocks farming career to which you make reference. Of those three, only the Dominiques have any true claim to length of history and proof of metal. The RIR and the NH outshine the Buckeye in type and always have. Buckeyes were never more than a marginally popular breed with very little favorable said about it in the old literature. It's current popularity is due to the ALBC who did an awesome job with it, but this is the best lime light Buckeyes have ever seen. Chanteclers certainly made a splash, but in an isolated way. They were a late arrival on the scene, and have barely more history than Delawares, Hollands, and Lamonas.

Plymouth Rocks, RIRs, and NHs are by a huge margin the most popular American fowl and their type explains why. Their standard is what makes them powerful, and their history reflects the benefit of that standard. They, especially the Plymouth Rock and the RIR, most resemble the Dorking and Sussex, which are the two oldest dual-purpose fowl in the English speaking world, comfortably older than the Dominique, and the Buckeye and Chantecler aren't even a blip on their historical radar. It is the superior length, breadth, and depth of the fowl I mentioned that give them the genetic potential to out-distance the others.

At the end of the day, though, if you want make claims for the test of time "For eggs, meat, sitters or mother hens, a Dorking has it all", and there are three hundred years of bountiful, unequivocal literature to speak for it.

At the end of the day, though, they're all good chickens.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I have another question...since I've never hatched out this amount of chicks before. What's a good system for integrating chicks into the flock? I'm waiting 2 months...is this too early or late? If I have a gap between hatches then, I have difficulty integrating the younger chicks together with the older chicks and the older and any chicks into the main flock. I even tried moving the entire pen into a larger pasture but they continue to take turns ganging up on the youngest and won't let them out of the coop. I think I'll be hen raising the rest.

It's best not to integrate immature stock with mature stock. Young cockerels and pullets should be raised separately away from breeding stock.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Thanks for the recommendation. I had read a bit about Dominiques, and they do fit the bill. I’ll put them on the short list for consideration.

I agree. Remembering that I am a beginner and only know what I have read, I plan to free range and provide store-bought feed. Over time, I would like to replace more and more of that feed with things I can produce myself, to protect against economic difficulties and for my own sense of self-sufficiency. I'm thinking of growing sunflowers, amaranth, pumpkins, sweet potatoes, and perhaps raise earthworms or mealworms (although the latter makes my skin crawl.

) There are some great articles on this by Harvey Ussery over at the Modern Homestead.
(http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Feeding.html)

Is anyone else looking into growing their own feed? Any experiences to share?

Thanks!

I just went to the link you posted. So helpful! I now know that the worms in my compost bin that make me want to gag

are soldier grubs and can be fed to the chickens. Yay! After reading, they aren't so gross. I already raise mealworms. I've got some good protein sources going here. I ferment my feed and free range to try and save money on feed. Thanks everyone for a great thread!

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

I have another question...since I've never hatched out this amount of chicks before. What's a good system for integrating chicks into the flock? I'm waiting 2 months...is this too early or late? If I have a gap between hatches then, I have difficulty integrating the younger chicks together with the older chicks and the older and any chicks into the main flock. I even tried moving the entire pen into a larger pasture but they continue to take turns ganging up on the youngest and won't let them out of the coop. I think I'll be hen raising the rest.

I have had some pretty aggressive chickens before so I have some experience with this. The best way I've found to integrate new or young birds into the flock is to first integrate a couple (or whatever number works for you) of the flock in with the newbies. If they have some friends, they stand a much better chance when being moved in with the flock. But this is just what works for me. I never try to integrate young chicks. I get them in the "teenager" stage, which depends on a breed's growth rate, and then try to.
Edited to add: I think adding a couple of the older birds in with the younger ones before trying to integrate them helps them to learn proper chicken etiquette as well

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

Well, in the name of friendly banter, I'd have to say not at all.

"Hardy, tough farm/homestead fowl" is any breed you want it to be, so long as you're going to select for it to be hardy and tough. Barring the disadvantage of single combs in wet, cold weather, every breed I've mentioned and you mentioned is equally capable of being bred to be hardy and tough. The Chanteclers might have a step up in Quebec, where I used to live so I understand the meaning of il fait frette, but Quebec notwithstanding, the only breed that might be able to lord "hardy and tough" over another breed as a breed characteristic as opposed to a strain characteristic is--perhaps--the Games. Incidentally, the Dominique was historically found to be less hardy than the Barred Rock, which was considered in all ways its superior. However, hardiness, as I mentioned, is a trait for selection, and although the Rock was considered superior, the fact is that both can be equally selected for general hardiness.

Four toes versus five toes is of absolutely no importance at all. There is no advantage or disadvantage to one or the other.

"For eggs, meat, sitters or mother hens, a Dominique has it all" Every hen on this page should be broody, and quality of broodiness is a strain characteristic, not a breed characteristic. You're selecting for it, or you're not. As for eggs, the Dominque does have a good body type for eggs, is it better than the RIR's body type? Probably not. Does it equal the Rock or NH for meat? No. Is it better for eggs type-wise, probably not, equal perhaps.

Predator resistant coloring? I'd say absolutely not. I put zero credence in feather color in most chickens to be of any value at all, and if I were to, it would go to a Partridge Rock. And if the Dominique were feather promoted, it wouldn't make it better than the Barred Rock to whom it is inferior for meat and no more than equal for eggs.

They are a good size? This is completely subjective. I agree with you, but then I think that well-bred Mediterranean fowl are of a good size, too. Neither rivals Dorkings, Sussex, Rocks, RIRs, or NHs in this department.

They are the oldest American breed? Sure, but this is not a virtue of quality; it's a fetish of preference--one I understand, mind you, I'm a Dorking lover, but it doesn't mean squat quality-wise.

Ruling the yard in any cockbird is of little value, and there's nothing in a Dominque make-up that makes it genetically more powerful or more capable of "ruling the yard" than a RIR. One could, however, say that RIRs and NHs, deriving their color and hardiness from the Malay have much more actual genetic potential to rule the roost.

Now, historically, Dominiques, Buckeyes, and Chanteclers do not belong together. Dominiques are the only breed of the three that can make claims to the old-school kind of hard knocks farming career to which you make reference. Of those three, only the Dominiques have any true claim to length of history and proof of metal. The RIR and the NH outshine the Buckeye in type and always have. Buckeyes were never more than a marginally popular breed with very little favorable said about it in the old literature. It's current popularity is due to the ALBC who did an awesome job with it, but this is the best lime light Buckeyes have ever seen. Chanteclers certainly made a splash, but in an isolated way. They were a late arrival on the scene, and have barely more history than Delawares, Hollands, and Lamonas.

Plymouth Rocks, RIRs, and NHs are by a huge margin the most popular American fowl and their type explains why. Their standard is what makes them powerful, and their history reflects the benefit of that standard. They, especially the Plymouth Rock and the RIR, most resemble the Dorking and Sussex, which are the two oldest dual-purpose fowl in the English speaking world, comfortably older than the Dominique, and the Buckeye and Chantecler aren't even a blip on their historical radar. It is the superior length, breadth, and depth of the fowl I mentioned that give them the genetic potential to out-distance the others.

At the end of the day, though, if you want make claims for the test of time "For eggs, meat, sitters or mother hens, a Dorking has it all", and there are three hundred years of bountiful, unequivocal literature to speak for it.

At the end of the day, though, they're all good chickens.

I think for folks like me, a dominique would be more practical than a PR or NH for a hardy and tough homestead fowl. They are smaller in build making them more affordable. They cost less to feed and take up less space in the coop. It seems like for a lot of people, some issues with heritage birds are how large they are and slow growth rate. Dominiques are better in those two fields than some of the larger American fowl you mention. Just my thoughts

 

[gjensen]

Something that is worth considering with the Dominiques etc. is the investment. A Dominique has 20% less flesh and feather to maintain. That equals less feed, especially expensive protein. I am not a "homesteader", but looking at it from that perspective, that consideration would matter to me.

 

[galanie]

I have another question...since I've never hatched out this amount of chicks before.  What's a good system for integrating chicks into the flock?  I'm waiting 2 months...is this too early or late?  If I have a gap between hatches then, I have difficulty integrating the younger chicks together with the older chicks and the older and any chicks into the main flock.  I even tried moving the entire pen into a larger pasture but they continue to take turns ganging up on the youngest and won't let them out of the coop.  I think I'll be hen raising the rest.

I have had some pretty aggressive chickens before so I have some experience with this. The best way I've found to integrate new or young birds into the flock is to first integrate a couple (or whatever number works for you) of the flock in with the newbies. If they have some friends, they stand a much better chance when being moved in with the flock. But this is just what works for me. I never try to integrate young chicks. I get them in the "teenager" stage, which depends on a breed's growth rate, and then try to.  
Edited to add: I think adding a couple of the older birds in with the younger ones before trying to integrate them helps them to learn proper chicken etiquette as well

Sometimes too, it depends on the breed and the strain. I never have a problem integrating younger with older. The only time the young ones really get picked at in my flock of buff Orps is when they don't respect their elders properly. Otherwise, the older ones ignore the young ones.

When dealing with integrating other breeds and strains though, I have the newer ones in a place that the others can see and interact with them through a fence or divider of some sort for a week or more before letting them mingle. It tends to make the transition go better.

And of importance too, is to be sure there's enough space and enough hiding places that anyone getting picked on can get away and hide.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Sometimes too, it depends on the breed and the strain. I never have a problem integrating younger with older. The only time the young ones really get picked at in my flock of buff Orps is when they don't respect their elders properly. Otherwise, the older ones ignore the young ones.

When dealing with integrating other breeds and strains though, I have the newer ones in a place that the others can see and interact with them through a fence or divider of some sort for a week or more before letting them mingle. It tends to make the transition go better.

And of importance too, is to be sure there's enough space and enough hiding places that anyone getting picked on can get away and hide.

I agree. I've been lucky this year, that it has worked, because I have so many different age groups from small hatches. I think it works because the coop is so large that they each have their own area. I have multiple feeders, to reduce competition for food. They free range during the day, so are not crowded at all during daylight hours. When I start seeing randy behavior from the cockerels, they are separated to a growout or cull pen. My pullets are large enough this year that they have been able to join the layers in their pasture coop as soon as they started laying. I'm actually surprised at how well it has worked out. My breeds are fairly docile, though, so that helps.

 

[Extra Java]

They, especially the Plymouth Rock and the RIR, most resemble the Dorking and Sussex, which are the two oldest dual-purpose fowl in the English speaking world, comfortably older than the Dominique, and the Buckeye and Chantecler aren't even a blip on their historical radar. It is the superior length, breadth, and depth of the fowl I mentioned that give them the genetic potential to out-distance the others.

Historically speaking, where would the Houdan fit in? Time period wise...are they older than the Sussex?