Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Yellow House Farm]

double post

 

[Yellow House Farm]

It is true that Dominiques are slightly smaller, but they do not grow more quickly than a NH, quite to the contrary in fact. They would be a little easier on the feed bill. For size, you bring up a very valid point. I actually think a lot of people would be served much better by an Ancona, Leghorn, or Minorca. There there are savings, high production, superior foraging, birds tough as nails, fertility out the kazoo, much more predator alert than the larger birds. They eat much less. They are an optimal homesteading bird.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Historically speaking, where would the Houdan fit in? Time period wise...are they older than the Sussex?

No, they are not older than the Sussex. They are younger than both the Crevecoeur and the La Fleche. They, like the Crevecoeur and the La Fleche are possessed of the proper body shape and are delicious. Unfortunately, they are very run down. They certainly are salvageable, but it will require some fancy breeding. Ideally, all three should be excellent......ideally.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Thoughts on size, below is a photo of friends and APA judges Jim Adkins and Don Nelson holding a Dorking pullet and an Ancona pullet respectively. If you ignore length of tail, etc., and just look at the body dimensions, even with a fairly poor view of the Dorking pullet, you can see that she's at least a third bigger than the Ancona.

 

[AletaG]

Capa. and Gal. maybe should put together an article on small flock integration? Loved the series of posts. Gave me lots of good ideas...

 

[Extra Java]

Yes, I'm glad I asked. Going from hatching a few dozen per year to a few hundred is a learning experience.

I'm sure some have already seen this video but for those who haven't. Jim Adkins teaches how to evaluate for production...(these happen to be Buckeyes) If you start at course #1 you'll be hooked for days watching these videos.

*Very nice photo above Yellow House*

Here's one of Jim's websites - he's right on in many ways. I also like his SPN Certified Flock Idea.
http://www.sustainablepoultrynetwork.com/

 

[cgmccary]

I have another question...since I've never hatched out this amount of chicks before. What's a good system for integrating chicks into the flock? I'm waiting 2 months...is this too early or late? If I have a gap between hatches then, I have difficulty integrating the younger chicks together with the older chicks and the older and any chicks into the main flock. I even tried moving the entire pen into a larger pasture but they continue to take turns ganging up on the youngest and won't let them out of the coop. I think I'll be hen raising the rest.

First, there must be adequate space in a coop, in a run and places for young birds to get out-of -the-way. Each person has to develop a system that works for them. What works for one may not work for another. There are not hard and fast rules here on integration. I can only tell you what works for me & hope some of it helps you.

I free range my birds and like to let young birds free range as soon as possible. I am a proponent of raising chickens free range. They do better. My adult breeding stock are let out and free range too during most of the year (**when they are not in breeding pens). This puts young birds, chicks, adults, breeding stock all inside coops at night and outside ranging ALL together at dawn each morning. I have very few problems. Each coop has a dominate Cock, and they stay out of the others' coop and just the area right around the coop. My spare Cocks are still kept individually penned up as they would fight one another and skirmish with the dominate cocks.

Therefore, I do integrate young birds in each coop at about 8 weeks (or sooner depending upon whether they are incubator hatched or hen raised). I also easily integrate chicks of different ages-- the sooner you can get them together, the better.I also have chicks raised from day one outside with game hens who are with adult birds from the first day. This system works very well for me. I understand most folks do not have dogs and donkey to protect the free ranging birds -- this is what allows me this luxury.

I also think a lot depends on the breed you keep and their nature, how much room you have in your pen and coops and your general set-up. All young birds (and old birds for that matter) need room to get away from bullying. I keep Buckeyes and La Fleche currently. Buckeyes are a gentle, friendly breed with one another and do not peck and bother chicks or juvenile birds (I have never had blood drawn unless it is two older cocks who sometimes find one another). I am finding that La Fleche pullets & hens are the same way and do not bother the young birds (Free ranging is actually the best way to raise La Fleche as they are calmer living free-- I am finding they do not do as well confined. They act crazy when confined.)

When young / juvenile cockerels come of age to where they are generally "out--of control" & jumping on old hens, then the cockerels get confined to pens together, but young pullets stay out free ranging. I then select any keepers, if any, and process the rest.

When I lived in the city and had limited space, my run was still large enough with hiding places for young birds to get away from older birds if needed. I regularly raised chicks with hens with the adult flock with no trouble. I also easily integrated young birds. One caution though, with Buckeyes, the difference in the size between male and female birds is one of the greatest. I once had a large (9-10 lb) Buckeye Cock cover a 14-16 week old pullet and actually broke her wing-- so I caution about differences in sizes between a Cock & pullets (again, the Buckeye poses the greatest difference of the American breeds but other large breeds -- this needs to be monitored).

I have no problem with coops that have several generations of Buckeyes, each year, the pullets I keep integrated into the coop the same way. Again, this is probably because they are let out free each morning until dusk. Interestingly, like people, young birds like to stay out until it is almost dark. Older birds start putting themselves up much earlier (pre-dusk).

 

[glddog]

Curiosity has won out )I am fairly new to chickens.2 years with a mixed flock, beeing Somewhat obsessed with egg color.I've been showing/breeding dogs specifically golden retrievers for20. I can't help translating chickens to dogs lol. You probably divide Goldens in (roughly) 3 distinct sub-types,usually ruled by venue. Backyard Breeders: breeding for profit with no understanding of the breed,appearance or health.Dogs are a mishmash in appearance some are even possible mixes .Conformation Breeders: breeding to (theoretically ) match the standard,they breed to better/preserve the breed . Conformation dogs have longer coat heavier bone. They may not have the other attributes a golden should have I.E. Hunting .Then u have the Performance Goldens: typically light on bone no coat, higher energy These dogs are bred without much if any intent to follow the standard but will run out to pick up a bird.
Rarely there is a breeder working to "bridge the gap" a dog that retrieves wile looking good
A hobby is a hobby is a hobby right? Lol
So this is my question, Do most breeders of SOP birds also address the productivity of the breed? Does form really follow function? I have seen g-awful structured dogs work all day in the field, so at least in dogs... NO not really, but most people can tell what breed they are.Do most SOP breeders eat their birds, know egg production, monitor food to weight ? Or is this something a wise person asks before selecting a breeder? How many have a small "homestead" and depend on their birds for their productive virtues?
Not at all trying to push anyone's buttons, just trying understand....and looking for the right chickens for the future !!!!!
Not at all trying to be argumentative

 

[BGMatt]

Curiosity has won out )I am fairly new to chickens.2 years with a mixed flock, beeing Somewhat obsessed with egg color.I've been showing/breeding dogs specifically golden retrievers for20. I can't help translating chickens to dogs lol. You probably divide Goldens in (roughly) 3 distinct sub-types,usually ruled by venue. Backyard Breeders: breeding for profit with no understanding of the breed,appearance or health.Dogs are a mishmash in appearance some are even possible mixes .Conformation Breeders: breeding to (theoretically ) match the standard,they breed to better/preserve the breed . Conformation dogs have longer coat heavier bone. They may not have the other attributes a golden should have I.E. Hunting .Then u have the Performance Goldens: typically light on bone no coat, higher energy These dogs are bred without much if any intent to follow the standard but will run out to pick up a bird.
Rarely there is a breeder working to "bridge the gap" a dog that retrieves wile looking good
A hobby is a hobby is a hobby right? Lol
So this is my question, Do most breeders of SOP birds also address the productivity of the breed? Does form really follow function? I have seen g-awful structured dogs work all day in the field, so at least in dogs... NO not really, but most people can tell what breed they are.Do most SOP breeders eat their birds, know egg production, monitor food to weight ? Or is this something a wise person asks before selecting a breeder? How many have a small "homestead" and depend on their birds for their productive virtues?
Not at all trying to push anyone's buttons, just trying understand....and looking for the right chickens for the future !!!!!
Not at all trying to be argumentative

Just like dogs there's good breeders and bad breeders. I find most of the folks that show or breed to the SOP for large fowl do also pay attention to the production qualities and eat culls. Bantam breeders not as much. One thing about the "form follows function" as much as I say it and believe it, I think the truth of it is "form ALLOWS function". Birds bred to the SOP have the correct body type to match their original purpose and excel at it. However it is possible that those traits have not been selected for. However if you get a start in birds with the proper bodies/confirmation/type YOU can select for production qualities and have an easier time of it then if you had started with birds lacking in those qualities.

One thing to remember is to be realistic, "Heritage" breeds are no longer the forefront of production, for eggs it's expendable hybrids that produce heavy at the cost of longevity and health. Meat is dominated by terminal crosses that are lucky to survive the 7-10 weeks to butcher. It wasn't until the 1950's that dual purpose fowl started producing over 150+ eggs a year consistently, 16 weeks was the absolute minimum to attain a market weight.

As far as the right chickens, it depends greatly on what your exact purpose is: Eggs and very little meat, Eggs with a good chunk of meat, Meat with a good chunk of eggs, or meat with the occasional egg.

For the first, the streamlined continental and mediterranean class white egg layers (Leghorn, Ancona, Spanish, Andalusian, Buttercup, Polish, Hamburg, Campine, Lakenvelder etc) will do a fantastic job,

For the second (Eggs with good meat) something like a Rhode Island Red, Langshan (the best breed), Welsummer, Dominique fits well.

For the third (eggs/meat with more of a meat emphasis) Wyandotte, Dorking, Orpington, Jersey Giant, and the like.

For the fourth, primarily meat with a few eggs, Cornish, Brahma, Delaware are in their element here.

There's some overlap and opinions, but that just kind of gives some ideas.

 

[glddog]

Beautifully put! Lol on the bantams