Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[gjensen]

LOL yeah but I have an awesome knack(tendency) to piss folk off in my arguing, can't help myself evidently. LOL My Granny always said 'if you don't have anything nice to say then keep it to yourself', I been practicing this advice for years and years but still haven't mastered that one yet LOL

Jeff

I get it Jeff. Everyone has an agenda. Me? Probably, but I have not identified it yet.

I appreciate a variety of perspectives. I do not appreciate someone imposing their idea of correctness on another. A lot of people keep birds for different reasons, and the last time I checked, they were free to do as they please.

If someone wants to keep some exotic imported such and such. I wish them well, and hope they enjoy them. If someone likes some run down at the edge of a cliff breed, encourage them. If someone likes tinkering with some misc. projects, good. They will learn a lot from it and have fun. Doesn't make a lot of sense to not enjoy what you do, or don't.

We speak a lot of how "it used to be". Other than the hustlers, the farmers, were a practical bunch. If the bird did not perform it was not worth having, regardless of how "fine" it was. The bird was either profitable to have around or not. The business model changed, and the reasons for keeping these birds have changed. I hope that everyone does as they please, and enjoy what they do. They certainly are not doing it for the money.

I like breeding for utility. I like correct, and appreciate the Standard. It defines what is correct. I do not think it is a bible though. It is not infallible, without fault. And if my finest example does not perform, relative to it's counterparts, I try again. There is a lot that makes a bird a good bird or not.

On the other hand, of someone keeps birds for their ornamental value, good for them. They are good looking birds. Enjoy them. That is not my style, but doesn't mean it can't be someone else's. That is how we ended up with so many breeds to begin with, and they all started by being someones project.

 

[finnfur]

I feed oats I sprout that I get directly out of the combine from a local farmers field. I have done some research and can not find anything about what are forage oats other than they are the regular oats planted to feed either for forage or dried or for next years crop. Am I missing something?? I know you have done a lot of research on this!

I don't sprout for feed - at least not yet. But I have done extensive research on wildlife food plots . I have come to find that if there is a picture of a Buck on the bag its usually the same thing you can most of the time buy 50% cheaper at the farmers seed store . I would think the TSC "Buck on the bag" oats are just spring forage oats . They may be a strain thats more winter hardy but for sprouting it shouldn't make a difference. The difference between seed oats and feed oats would most likely be less weed seed and higher germination %.
I would think if it sprouts any would be good for the chickens.
I also get seed from the farmer direct - its winter wheat but ferments great with a little bought oats mixed in. I get free wheat and the farmer gets hay from our place and free eggs - its a win/win . LOL

 

[Fred's Hens]

Fred, if you are ranting about it, then it must be something especially worth hearing about.

Kind of you to say.

We work out ever living butts off on this homestead with produce, as produce farming has always been hard work. Really hard work. We put up 40% of our own food through gardening, orchards and the birds.

To give these "town markets" the rent prices they ask simply results in not having the small farmer show up. You're almost assuring that big time wholesale/re-sellers will show up. If that's what the town wants, that's fine. But the same wholesale produce is already available elsewhere at the super stores nearby. If you really want to build community, then the "rent" would be next to nothing. In fact, they'd beg us to come and make something of their town's market. As it stands? Nah. We're just about sold out, thank God, right from the end of the drive. Craig's is a wonderful tool. I'm flat worn out physically, so I'm glad it is just about over.

We only get paid over a three or four week period for 4 months of hard labor. Excuse me for not wanting to "share" it with those who just don't get it.

Rant? I dunno. Truth for certain.

 

[galanie]

 I get it Jeff. Everyone has an agenda. Me? Probably, but I have not identified it yet. 

 I appreciate a variety of perspectives. I do not appreciate someone imposing their idea of correctness on another. A lot of people keep birds for different reasons, and the last time I checked, they were free to do as they please. 

 If someone wants to keep some exotic imported such and such. I wish them well, and hope they enjoy them. If someone likes some run down at the edge of a cliff breed, encourage them. If someone likes tinkering with some misc. projects, good. They will learn a lot from it and have fun. Doesn't make a lot of sense to not enjoy what you do, or don't. 

 We speak a lot of how "it used to be". Other than the hustlers, the farmers, were a practical bunch. If the bird did not perform it was not worth having, regardless of how "fine" it was. The bird was either profitable to have around or not. The business model changed, and the reasons for keeping these birds have changed. I hope that everyone does as they please, and enjoy what they do. They certainly are not doing it for the money. 

 I like breeding for utility. I like correct, and appreciate the Standard. It defines what is correct. I do not think it is a bible though. It is not infallible, without fault. And if my finest example does not perform, relative to it's counterparts, I try again. There is a lot that makes a bird a good bird or not. 

 On the other hand, of someone keeps birds for their ornamental value, good for them. They are good looking birds. Enjoy them. That is not my style, but doesn't mean it can't be someone else's. That is how we ended up with so many breeds to begin with, and they all started by being someones project. 

What I've not been able to figure out is why someone would breed "to the standard" and ignore production altogether. OK I do know that for some people winning at a show is everything, but I don't get how that mind really words. Guess I'm too practical. I got some birds of a line of Orps that were easily competitive at shows a couple years ago, but this "dual purpose" bird hardly lays at all. Now I have some of a line that beats the other line hands down at laying yet also beats them when it comes to the SOP. Why breed out the "dual purpose" of a dual purpose unless you're egotistical. Silly.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Would not the reverse also be true? or Silly? Breeding away from the Standard?

In a nut shell, Standard-bred poultry are supposed to be shaped a specific way in order to produce a specific way, the former enabling the latter. Having done a fair bit of this, I'd rather start with standard-bred birds that produce poorly and then do what it takes to bring them to strong production than to start with fairly productive birds that are not actually standard-bred and try to fish a properly standard-bred bird out of their genes.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Karen, lol, I"m still laughing because on your second point this makes great sense. However I have completely lost my green thumb. I have tried sprouting oats several times. ANd gaave up. Call the supplier and the anser was the farmers use these same oats for sowing their fields. So lost my green thumb. THen one day I move a bag that had been forgotten and underneath was 2 inch sprouts.

Clearly the oats do sprout, just not when I create the set up! lol


Karen also, what do you do to stimulate laying from now to NOv. I have customers that want eggs, even now.

For clarity, the "favorite" is not my fav but a fav among the roosters. If anyone wants to tackle that one. I hate the look of the bare backs ( girls get off the saddles) but don't want to get rid of a good thing, if they have value.

 

[maryhysong]

Greetings! Using Standard-bred heritage poultry as a basis for traditional food production is a passion of ours. With heritage fowl, there is an entire cycle of food production that fills the calendar with seasonality and surprise, which differs in outstanding fashion from the current hum-drum of same-old same-old that has replaced our traditional food supply since the rise of the chicken nugget.

It would be a pleasure to start a dialogue, in conjuction with the other fine threads in this section dedicated to heritage poultry, about the ins and outs of using Standard-bred poultry on the homestead.

This can be a place to share experience, ask questions, and work out solutions with regards to egg production, meat production, feather harvest, etc., all in relating back to the breeding efforts of an ever evolving homestead flock of heritage fowl and even waterfowl


This is Joseph first post when he started this tread.

I am not a homesteader so I will go back to my tread.

Have a nice day.

Well Bob I hope you hang around, you always have great advice and insights! I am homesteading, tho right now mostly I just have the chickens & ducks, partly because EVERYTHING in the world likes to eat chicken and good fencing is expensive, not leaving much leeway right now for other enterprises. That said there is always something to eat at my place and of course I eat a LOT of chicken. I have a mixed bag of Black Copper Marans, easter eggers, hatchery quality buff orpingtons, some Welsummers, some Wellie/leghorn crosses and recently some young Buff Rocks.

While I would love to sell organic meat, in my area that isn't going to work out. I must have that meat processed in an inspected slaughter house, which is nearly 70 miles one way, so just not happening. I market my meat to myself.

I begin processing young birds when they are 3-4 months old, with the BCM I started with the boys with too much color on their chest, because that isn't going to change. With the EE pretty much all boys go to freezer camp at the moment so I start with the biggest ones. Occasionally I'll have a roaster, mostly the couple extra boys I kept back while I waited for them to mature before making a final decision. I may have Mean Rooster Soup any time of the year.

When I am doing a lot of young fryers in a short period of time I might package them as pieces instead of whole birds. In that case I collect the bony carcasses and hold them in bags in the freezer until the weather cools enough for canning. Then I'll make several gallons of stock from them and can them in pints and quarts. I may experiment with canning some meat this fall.

Because I seem to have a steady stream of culls and extra roosters coming along all year I will probably never raise any specific meat birds. Also I haven't really bought any meat except a little bacon and sausage in a year.

I sell eggs at my local farmer's market, $4 / dz for regular size and $2 for little pullet eggs. My huge Muscovy duck eggs are $4 for a half doz and the slightly smaller Welsh Harlequin eggs are $3 for a half doz. Most Sat. I sell out in under an hour. Two weeks ago I sold a total of 15.5 dz eggs in 15 minutes. I have people standing in line when they ring the bell to open the market. I buy certified organic feed with fish meal, no corn, soy or canola in the layer feed. I am slowly working towards having good size runs that I can plant with all sorts of greens and grains and rotate the birds through the pens to help cut feed costs. This is expensive feed but it's one reason some of my loyal customers buy my eggs instead of from the other vendors. Also my customers love all the different colors and the fact that I can tell on many of the eggs which bird laid it.

My market closes Oct 5 and while I will be making arrangements with steady customers to sell eggs over the winter I don't think I will be over run with eggs. There are a number of older hens going to the stew pot this year and I will greatly thin out the younger ones. I want to breed quality BCM, Buff Orpingtons, Buff Rocks, that is another avenue of income, selling good breeding stock so I cull with that in mind as well as productivity. I will be hatching chicks for my next generation and so it all starts over again. Since my farmer's market is June-Oct will mostly hatch from Nov-Feb so everyone will be laying in time for the opening of the market, tho I may hatch a few in April & May to sell as chicks.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Might mean an oat that has not been crimped or rolled. Which of course destroys the oat as a seed.

Quote: Which is whyAt the commons for $240/yr = $6 for a one cup jar of custom roasted nut butter; $5.50 for 4 muffins; $4 for one gluten free muffin. THe place was hopping when I left, with the afternoon traffic, folks returning from work. I haven't hear from the co-ordinator yet-- been two weeks.

Visited a new farm stand 1.5 miles from home, stopped in on Sat. Nice produce. $2.50/# for the best beef steak tomatos. Looked perfect. THe folks have been producing for themselves all these years and started last fall with a Sat of selling. THe DH picks fresh as needed, in 15 minutes he is back with more to restock. THAT is fresh.

THe brief visit netted me a new squash to try, forgotten the name, and a winters worth of cord wood for next year!! COntractor stopped over to find out if we knew of anyone needing cord wood. After a couple minutes, when he mentioned free," I'll take it!! " slipped out. THree trips in a large truck. DH saw the pile and was shocked at the amount of wood he gets to cut to length and split! heeheee, told him the boys will help. He looked at me, deadpan, It's blank-blank maple. COde for hard to split. He just doesn't know how much the boys like to split wood. IT'a all about playing with an ax. In the mean time the turkey poults use it for their afternoon siesta.

Quote: Exactly why I have not been tempted to buy any birds at the shows. Too easy for production to be forgotten. I can appreciate the hard work that went into breeding such a beautiful bird. but the blue ribbon doesn't tell the whole story. First and fore most I am looking for food to go on the table.

Would not the reverse also be true? or Silly? Breeding away from the Standard?

In a nut shell, Standard-bred poultry are supposed to be shaped a specific way in order to produce a specific way, the former enabling the latter. Having done a fair bit of this, I'd rather start with standard-bred birds that produce poorly and then do what it takes to bring them to strong production than to start with fairly productive birds that are not actually standard-bred and try to fish a properly standard-bred bird out of their genes.

Joseph, I know you are talking about having the structure to start with to then build up the muscling. Puts you halve way to destination. I think the point above was that the birds should not have lost the dual purpose traits to begin with. I dont mean to put words in another persons mouth-- rather this is my take away. If a person looking for utility traits has to start somewhere, then start with the correct structure. My one concern has been , can the meat be improved upon in a given flock? After much pondering I came to the conclusion: only if the genes are in there. IT could be a fruitless effort.

I am interested in SS but I am waiting to see if a particular dedicated breeder can improve the muscling and restore her line to a true dual purpose bird. Until then I will use a project bird for meat as I hate the lack of muscling in the crappy hatchry stock and it's hardly worth my time to dress them. ANd I don't mean put a coat on! lol

I think Mr REese has a very good meat line of NH that are pure bred but not to the SOP. Those are his words, on his sale page ; they may be remarkably good birds inspite of his comment as I'm sure he is very critical of his birds. My point is sometimes you can't have both. Selecting for too many traits at once can be problematic.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: That would make you nice company to invite to a party . . . . but I wouldn't learn much about you or new ideas.

Just type away, step away, then rewrite.

 

[lcahill]

Quote:

Quote: My apologies Mr. Robert Blosl...

Quote:
So basically you are stating that I could NOT have a sustainable flock with 3-4 good quality roos and 4 dozen good quality hens that were not separated? I would assume that using active culling of weak and "trait-less" birds you could keep the flock strong; however, it appears that I am not understanding something. Could you clarify why it wouldn't work?

My apologies for striking a nerve, that was not my intention. I am just trying to figure this stuff out. I have a wife, 8 kids, 2 dogs, and nearly 50 chickens so sustainability is something that I strive for. Currently we grow, hunt, or raise about 40% of our food and we are looking to increase that quite a bit. We have plans, but we are doing our homework before we dive in.