Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[capayvalleychick]

Any half decent pasture , scrub, or woods has all the free protein you need spring through fall. You just have to let the birds find it, and find ways to keep them safe in the process. Obviously you need aggressive foragers and you can't overstock the land with too many birds. What they lack in range is carbohydrates, hence the ancient practice of feeding grain. I raise plenty of cockerels and a few cull pullets each season on nothing but a few handfuls of whole grain a day for the whole free range gang. That's after they fully feather out and are large and smart enough to take care of themselves. Trying to raise protein for poultry is working too hard. They can find that themselves easy enough.

I wonder if this hold true for all breeds, or if the game fowl have an advantage in this respect?

I have some young, dual purpose breed birds, that are in poor flesh. They free range every day during daylight hours. The have been fed a 21% protein starter ration that includes fish meal. They've tested free of parasites. These birds are ravenous and will eat anything they can get a hold of.

I wondered if they needed more energy (carbs) feed sources but that would displace the protein level.

I would tend to disagree that they can get all the protein they need by free ranging. Or maybe some breeds - like game fowl- more than others.

 

[gallorojo]

So many variables that in the end it's hard to say. One free range isn't the same as another. We have lush pasture, gardens, and orchards, plenty of rain, and fertile soil. I'm sure that makes a difference. A lot depends on breed and genetics within the breed. I have birds that are very very meaty and well fleshed under identical conditions to another that's small and thin. Some breeds or strains will just put on meat better than others. If they don't have the genetics to make a good carcass, no amount of protein is ever going to get you a good carcass. I raise birds on regular chick starter until fully feathered, then, they get just layer feed plus scratch either forever, or, if cockerels or cull pullets, they eventually get turned loose and get nothing but corn or oats in small amounts. So I don't feed high protein rations here. The breeds or strains with the genetics to get meaty, do get meaty. Those that have scrawny genetics, are skinny. I've had leg problems if I tried to feed high protein rations anyway. There is such a thing as too much if a good thing and protein overload, particularly lean protein. Fats are needed in balanced amounts with protein. Look up " rabbit starvation ". I'm tend to believe that feed matters less than the inherent potential of the breed or strain. Better feed may speed things up at times, but you can have too much if a good thing, too .

 

[catdaddyfro]

This is a rat, not a mouse. This is the one I post when people talk about a vegetarian diet for chickens.

Walt

Yeah, really, I like that LOL mine keep the critter population down around here too If I'm out digging thru a bunch of crap and come across a mice nest I throw the little baby mice out and the chickens go into a frenzy mode liken to sharks or piranahs.

Doc I hope you meant 5ft black rat snakes instead of a 5 foot long rats!

you got bad problems if its the latter <LOL



Love'n the birchen girl here, well I mean I like them all but she sticks out like a sore thumb

here and looks good doing it LOL

Jeff

 

[catdaddyfro]

Look closely, a young Cubalaya cockerel is eating a mouse!
I frankly don't get or relate to these quests to grow your own free protein for poultry. Any half decent pasture , scrub, or woods has all the free protein you need spring through fall. You just have to let the birds find it, and find ways to keep them safe in the process. Obviously you need aggressive foragers and you can't overstock the land with too many birds. What they lack in range is carbohydrates, hence the ancient practice of feeding grain. I raise plenty of cockerels and a few cull pullets each season on nothing but a few handfuls of whole grain a day for the whole free range gang. That's after they fully feather out and are large and smart enough to take care of themselves. Trying to raise protein for poultry is working too hard. They can find that themselves easy enough.

Yes I have about half or more on my flock here that ranges freely(as they won't stay in side they all come home for roosting but they are out every morning) they only get very little scratch grains daily and live off the land and I'd say most are in just as good of shape or better than my ones I baby sit and feed expensive diets to(go figure) and they also avoid capture by the varmints and critters. Not so with the expensive booboos that I wait on hand and foot and spend/have spent great deals of money on are the first to get picked off if not guarded like the castle when out free ranging. say la vee <my french sucks

Jeff

 

[NanaKat]

Love'n the birchen girl here, well I mean I like them all but she sticks out like a sore thumb

here and looks good doing it LOL

Jeff

Thank you. She is a F1 keeper from the Birchen Wyandotte project and on the far left is a F2 keeper from the Blue Columbian project. Then I have Columbian and Blue Wyandotte too. I love the Wyandotte for gentle dispositions, good layers, mothers and a good meat bird.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Yup, just for clarity, I'm not recommending the old "rotten road kill on stakes over the hen run" trick. That may have been something Harvey recommended, maybe not, I don't know. As was implied on here a bit back, chickens are built to eat it, but anything can toxify The difficulty with allowing meat to rot in enclosed runs for the production of maggots is that it's going to lead to a level of consumption without the moderation that access to free-range would support. Frankly, I wouldn't do it. We don't eat sick; we don't eat rot. To each his own.

As to the notion of "selecting to one's own "standard'", I think that's more of an excuse, which stands for "didn't start with good stock and can't be bothered to find any." There are so many different types available in the Standard that developing a new one is going to take some doing. If one's selecting away from the Standard towards something else, chances are one's going somewhere already in the Standard. Why not just start with the breed that is there to satisfy that typical goal. Once type is set, one is always doing the work of selecting for productivity, etc...

When folks talk about selecting for productivity as if it were an alternative form of selection that differs from SOP selection, it is an expression of their misunderstanding. Specific types exist to serve a particular production. Selecting for that type is like setting the stage. However, once the stage is set, then comes the work of selecting individuals within the breed parameters that exemplify the production criteria for which the particular type was developed. If one is "selecting for production" in a direction that diverges from breed type, one is leaving the breed of origin and developing something different. A pure example of this is the development of the NH out of the RIR. "Pure" RIR's were selected in a different typical direction over a period of 15 or so years and the product was a NH. Now, this was no accident, and it happened via cooperation between serious farmers with vast resources. When random folks just start crossing this or that with a pipedream and naught more, one's just jumbling genes. The development of the NH wasn't just a random experiment; it was the work of poultry professionals with a very clear goal and the resources to attain that goal.

As I mentioned above, when dealing with standard-bred, aka heritage, breeds, one needs to be chicken-focused, SOP focused. Otherwise, one is serving a different goal, which is of course fine, but it's not to develop poultry of quality. It is good to state that it's important to be clear on the "issue" with hatchery poultry. First of all, chickens are strong resourceful birds, and hatchery birds aren't bad birds. The major criteria behind what they have selected for is egg-production, which one can feel when holding them, if one knows what to feel for, which is why most hatchery stock lay fairly decently. Now, all hatcheries are not created equal, and many hatcheries have healthy and productive lines of one bird, while having lines that are generally "less than" of another bird. Now I say "bird" and not "breed". They're just birds, not breeds, even if hatcheries get away with selling them under the title of a specific APA breed because the market is not regulated. The SOP type for each breed is the pedigree of that breed. Chickens are "standard-bred", it is their standard type that establishes them as a representative of that breed. Just because a chicken is Buff with white legs doesn't mean that it is a Buff Orpington; it just means it's a buff bird with white legs that lays eggs. Hatcheries sell birds by feather color and pattern, but feather color and pattern is a variety statement and not a breed statement. Their birds are mutts because they do not breed to the SOP. Now, having said that, if one starts with healthy and productive hatchery stock and then one starts breeding them "for production"--what's that about? Hatcheries aren't run by know-nothings, especially large hatcheries. They have all sorts of employees, consult and sometimes employ experts, conform to regulations, confront diseases professionally, maintain gene pools en masse. If one gets hatchery Silver Spangled Hamburgs, they're going to lay strongly, forage excellently and have strong predator instincts. What "new" criteria does one think one is going to select for?

If one wants to see an amazing bird, one wants to see a good, healthy, bird that has the basic size, type, and feather quality that forms the base of an excellent SOP specimen. Upon that base is painted the variety. This is the work where art and science et to breed thee fowl in the first place. That's what breeders do, and it's what we do that hatcheries don't do, I dare say, even can't do, because this is the work that comes from hands-on, specimen by specimen selection: focus, discipline, self-imposed limitation, commitment, uber-adequate floor-space, free-range, individual bird knowledge. Modern meat production? They win. Modern egg production? They win. Old school, drop-dead beautiful farm fowl with adequate small-farm and homestead appropriate adaptations? We hold the key to that--because we hold the Standard. You're not going to develop birds that lay better than hatchery birds. You're not going to develop meat crosses better than their meat crosses. What you can do is make one, or perhaps two, breeds visually stunning with honestly dual-purpose, family appropriate, small-scale, diversified farming worthy specimens of fowl that embody the ideals of the SOP that date from a time when land owners were more fluent in the lingo of strong, on-farm poultry production.

 

[NotAFarm]

Joseph, This is most well put description of and reason for breeding Standard Bred fowl that I have come across. Very well put.

 

[Arielle]

To add to the meat foraging skills . . . .my son caried in a hen under his arm yelling for me to come look. Understand this is a nine yr old boy. Upon arrival he holds out the bird toward me, mind you this is IN the house, and I can't miss the tiny toad hanging from the clamped hard beak of this hen. She does not intend to lose this prize at any cost. lol I firmly told my son to get her outside NOW-- I felt sorry for the toad , they have been off limits because of the horrible taste . . . and safe from eating. ( I like toads, and enjoy seeing them flourish here. -- maybe not so safe now. lol) Wish I had taken a pic!

 

[varidgerunner]

In terms of supplemental protein sources for chickens, I have a pretty good perspective on it. May not be the most politically correct, but it is what it is.

I trap the vermin around my flock in the wintertime, and skin them and sell their fur. It is quite surprising to see just what a chicken will eat. A flock of twenty five can turn a coyote carcass into a skeleton in a weeks time, if it doesn't freeze too hard. Even frozen meat is not completely safe from a chicken beak. They will dig through the snow to get to the carcass pile. They will ignore grain and chicken feed and make a mad dash through the snow to get there, so it must be pretty good. The smartest hens hang out near the fleshing beam where I scrape the fat off of the hides. It seems that fat is a hotter commodity than the protein in the winter. I don't do it when it gets warm, too smelly, plus the fur is worthless in warm weather. Quite ironic to see hens feeding on foxes and coons that would have gladly reversed roles.

 

[galanie]

Yup, just for clarity, I'm not recommending the old "rotten road kill on stakes over the hen run" trick.  That may have been something Harvey recommended, maybe not, I don't know.  As was implied on here a bit back, chickens are built to eat it, but anything can toxify  The difficulty with allowing meat to rot in enclosed runs for the production of maggots is that it's going to lead to a level of consumption without the moderation that access to free-range would support.  Frankly, I wouldn't do it.  We don't eat sick; we don't eat rot.  To each his own.

As to the notion of "selecting to one's own "standard'", I think that's more of an excuse, which stands for "didn't start with good stock and can't be bothered to find any."  There are so many different types available in the Standard that developing a new one is going to take some doing.  If one's selecting away from the Standard towards something else, chances are one's going somewhere already in the Standard.  Why not just start with the breed that is there to satisfy that typical goal.  Once type is set, one is always doing the work of selecting for productivity, etc...

When folks talk about selecting for productivity as if it were an alternative form of selection that differs from SOP selection, it is an expression of their misunderstanding.  Specific types exist to serve a particular production.  Selecting for that type is like setting the stage.  However, once the stage is set, then comes the work of selecting individuals within the breed parameters that exemplify the production criteria for which the particular type was developed.  If one is "selecting for production" in a direction that diverges from breed type, one is leaving the breed of origin and developing something different.  A pure example of this is the development of the NH out of the RIR.  "Pure" RIR's were selected in a different typical direction over a period of 15 or so years and the product was a NH.  Now, this was no accident, and it happened via cooperation between serious farmers with vast resources.  When random folks just start crossing this or that with a pipedream and naught more, one's just jumbling genes.  The development of the NH wasn't just a random experiment; it was the work of poultry professionals with a very clear goal and the resources to attain that goal.

As I mentioned above, when dealing  with standard-bred, aka heritage, breeds, one needs to be chicken-focused, SOP focused.  Otherwise, one is serving a different goal, which is of course fine, but it's not to develop poultry of quality.  It is good to state that it's important to be clear on the "issue" with hatchery poultry.  First of all, chickens are strong resourceful birds, and hatchery birds aren't bad birds.  The major criteria behind what they have selected for is egg-production, which one can feel when holding them, if one knows what to feel for, which is why most hatchery stock lay fairly decently.  Now, all hatcheries are not created equal, and many hatcheries have healthy and productive lines of one bird, while having lines that are generally "less than" of another bird.  Now I say "bird" and not "breed".  They're just birds, not breeds, even if hatcheries get away with selling them under the title of a specific APA breed because the market is not regulated.  The SOP type for each breed is the pedigree of that breed.  Chickens are "standard-bred", it is their standard type that establishes them as a representative of that breed.  Just because a chicken is Buff with white legs doesn't mean that it is a Buff Orpington; it just means it's a buff bird with white legs that lays eggs.  Hatcheries sell birds by feather color and pattern, but feather color and pattern is a variety statement and not a breed statement.  Their birds are mutts because they do not breed to the SOP.  Now, having said that, if one starts with healthy and productive hatchery stock and then one starts breeding them "for production"--what's that about?  Hatcheries aren't run by know-nothings, especially large hatcheries.  They have all sorts of employees, consult and sometimes employ experts, conform to regulations, confront diseases professionally, maintain gene pools en masse.  If one gets hatchery Silver Spangled Hamburgs, they're going to lay strongly, forage excellently and have strong predator instincts.  What "new" criteria does one think one is going to select for?

If one wants to see an amazing bird, one wants to see a good, healthy, bird that has the basic size, type, and feather quality that forms the base of an excellent SOP specimen.  Upon that base is painted the variety.  This is the work where art and science et to breed thee fowl in the first place.  That's what breeders do, and it's what we do that hatcheries don't do, I dare say, even can't do, because this is the work that comes from hands-on, specimen by specimen selection: focus, discipline, self-imposed limitation, commitment, uber-adequate floor-space, free-range, individual bird knowledge.  Modern meat production?  They win.  Modern egg production?  They win.  Old school, drop-dead beautiful farm fowl with adequate small-farm and homestead appropriate adaptations?  We hold the key to that--because we hold the Standard.  You're not going to develop birds that lay better than hatchery birds.  You're not going to develop meat crosses better than their meat crosses.  What you can do is make one, or perhaps two, breeds visually stunning with honestly dual-purpose, family appropriate, small-scale, diversified farming worthy specimens of fowl that embody the ideals of the SOP that date from a time when land owners were more fluent in the lingo of strong, on-farm poultry production.

Preach it, brother! Excellent post.