Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Webechickens]

Quote:
What happened to Bob?
BOb passed away on Friday--last Friday.
Oh, no. That is terrible news. I didn't know him at all, but truly enjoyed reading everything he has posted and written. Such a knowledgeable man, indeed! I am sure he will be missed by many. Thoughts and prayers go out to everyone.

 

[Shellz]

X2. Words fail me.

 

[colburg]

I have some thoughts I need to lay out, and some questions that I could use some help answering.

We need to replace 60 hatchery layers, and 100 CX/yr with Good Ole White Rocks.

Starting with a trio(or 2 pair) soon, what's the best way to tackle this? With only 1 incubator, saving eggs for about 7 days to start a hatch may give me 10 eggs every 21 days. That's 256 days to hatch 160 new WR's. It's possible I could borrow an incubator and cut that time in half(18 weeks).

Replacing 160 chickens in the first year may be too ambitious with only 2 layers. Thoughts? Maybe I should only hatch about 2-3 months worth of eggs and try a complete replacement the following year?

Future:
Once we get our feet wet, I could easily see hatching 200-300 in late 2014/early 2015. We already have egg customers asking for meat. Anyone selling butchered birds? Mind sharing selling price?

In order to complete hatching in 3 months, Dec/Jan thru Mar/Apr(personal goal with no logic other than winter hatching for faster growth/feathering, please rearrange my logic if necessary)...I need another incubator(Genesis 1588).

3 hatches of 100, or 4 hatches of 75 is possible in 3 months. At 5 eggs/hen/week, I need 20 hens. In order to select for SOP standards and possible showing in the future, 20 seems like a lot. Do I keep SOP birds seperate from others that I use just to lay for meat so I can make profits?

Does anyone else hatch 300+/yr? Will you share your methods and logic?

Apologies for disorganized thoughts,
THanks,
colburg

 

[BGMatt]

I have some thoughts I need to lay out, and some questions that I could use some help answering.

We need to replace 60 hatchery layers, and 100 CX/yr with Good Ole White Rocks.

Starting with a trio(or 2 pair) soon, what's the best way to tackle this? With only 1 incubator, saving eggs for about 7 days to start a hatch may give me 10 eggs every 21 days. That's 256 days to hatch 160 new WR's. It's possible I could borrow an incubator and cut that time in half(18 weeks).

Replacing 160 chickens in the first year may be too ambitious with only 2 layers. Thoughts? Maybe I should only hatch about 2-3 months worth of eggs and try a complete replacement the following year?

Future:
Once we get our feet wet, I could easily see hatching 200-300 in late 2014/early 2015. We already have egg customers asking for meat. Anyone selling butchered birds? Mind sharing selling price?

In order to complete hatching in 3 months, Dec/Jan thru Mar/Apr(personal goal with no logic other than winter hatching for faster growth/feathering, please rearrange my logic if necessary)...I need another incubator(Genesis 1588).

3 hatches of 100, or 4 hatches of 75 is possible in 3 months. At 5 eggs/hen/week, I need 20 hens. In order to select for SOP standards and possible showing in the future, 20 seems like a lot. Do I keep SOP birds seperate from others that I use just to lay for meat so I can make profits?

Does anyone else hatch 300+/yr? Will you share your methods and logic?

Apologies for disorganized thoughts,
THanks,
colburg

When planning on hatching that many I would definitely look into a sportsman or dickey cabinet incubator, you will get more capacity and better reliability. You can definitely use Standard Bred chickens to replace commercial birds. Just be selective when purchasing that the breeder you buy from puts an emphasis on production as well, some don't. My mentors all told me poultry for profit was a fool's errand, but I can see potential there in today's more educated and conscientious market. I think the plan to follow would be to hatch for yourself (stock expansion and replacement) in Dec/Jan/Feb, then continue to hatch part of eggs to sell chicks and hatching eggs (higher cost and return on investment, I sell chicks for $8-10 each, hatching eggs $25 a dozen and up). Meat and eating eggs are lowest profit margin (I can get roughly $4/lb for natural/organically fed chicken and $4 a dozen for natural/organically fed eggs half that if it's not organic fed), and it's usually near impossible to sell juvenile or adult birds at anything close to what it cost to raise them (At least the way I raise and feed I have figured out each bird over it's life costs me an average of $1 a week). So if profit is your goal first thing is to figure out your exact cost to raise the birds, and then prioritize your sales for both profit margin and demand, it MAY be possible depending on demand for the high profit margin chicks and hatching eggs. Local market research is important too as far as the sale price of eggs and meat.

 

[Arielle]

Colburg-- over the summer I visited a local farmers market. The vacuum packed roasting chickens ran about $24 each. I'm sorry I have forgotten the per pound cost. Bout $8 as I recall. Seems like the processing is as expensive as the feeding/raising.

I made far more money selling eggs for hatching than as eating eggs. $4 is the most my area supports for eating eggs though I heard, but could not confirm for myself, that a person had been selling eggs at that same farmers market mentioned above for $6/doz but was no longer selling. (That particular farmers market charged $250/ vendor per season.) THe baked good had a larger profit margin. $5/4 muffins if regular; more if gluten free.

THe carcasses are very different. I have raised cornishX . and they have the heft of a bowling ball and a very large breast area. I have also butchered my hatchery stock and some "breeder" stock all of which was pitiful in the breat area for meat though legs were only slightly less meaty. Joseph posted the photos of his fall harvest, and as I recall these birds were over a year and beautifully filled out. ALL my birds could not hold a candle to those roasts. WHat I am trying to get at, I suspect the customers also need to get used to a different carcass. A slightly different rather than a hugely different might help keep the customers you already have. ( I hope I am not sounding rude. I'm sorry if I am.)

Not to dissuade you from the rocks, but in case you can't find a rock to your liking, perhaps check out the New Hampshires that Mr Reese offers. These are a line that he has raised as meat birds. Not sure of their laying abilities, but as they are NH might be worth some consideration as good layers, too.

I applaud your effort!!

 

[colburg]

Arielle, no rudeness taken. I'd much rather prefer some honest rudeness over happy *^$%$^& political correctness.

BTW, thanks Arielle and BGMatt. My WR's are coming from Marvin Stukel. Some equipment upgrades will come once we get some real numbers to crunch and proof of concept.

I figured I'd be doing good to get $4-5/lb or maybe $20/bird. I think it was BGMatt who said 90% growth at 6 months?? That's close to Pareto's Law. I like it. If need be, I can order CX for meat to sell, though would prefer not to. Or maybe meat is only on my families menu.

We also sell eating eggs at $3/doz. I don't think I'll be comfortable selling hatching eggs or chicks for quite some time.

They'll have 20 acres of irrigated orchard to range in over the spring summer and fall. I've been able to cut my layers feed by about 1/2 by free ranging, and even more by feeding fermented feed. My estimated cost of feed between layers and CX over the last year is averaging 45 cents/week. Is a 4lb carcass at 20 weeks out of the realm of reality for SOP chickens?

I realize there are many variables that not all of us can account for. But if I can get my land paid off, hatch my own, mostly free range, then, with coming inflation etc., food will become very profitable.

Thanks all,
colburg

 

[cbnovick]

Colburg-- over the summer I visited a local farmers market. The vacuum packed roasting chickens ran about $24 each. I'm sorry I have forgotten the per pound cost. Bout $8 as I recall. Seems like the processing is as expensive as the feeding/raising.

I made far more money selling eggs for hatching than as eating eggs. $4 is the most my area supports for eating eggs though I heard, but could not confirm for myself, that a person had been selling eggs at that same farmers market mentioned above for $6/doz but was no longer selling. (That particular farmers market charged $250/ vendor per season.) THe baked good had a larger profit margin. $5/4 muffins if regular; more if gluten free.

THe carcasses are very different. I have raised cornishX . and they have the heft of a bowling ball and a very large breast area. I have also butchered my hatchery stock and some "breeder" stock all of which was pitiful in the breat area for meat though legs were only slightly less meaty. Joseph posted the photos of his fall harvest, and as I recall these birds were over a year and beautifully filled out. ALL my birds could not hold a candle to those roasts. WHat I am trying to get at, I suspect the customers also need to get used to a different carcass. A slightly different rather than a hugely different might help keep the customers you already have. ( I hope I am not sounding rude. I'm sorry if I am.)

Not to dissuade you from the rocks, but in case you can't find a rock to your liking, perhaps check out the New Hampshires that Mr Reese offers. These are a line that he has raised as meat birds. Not sure of their laying abilities, but as they are NH might be worth some consideration as good layers, too.

I applaud your effort!!

Yes the Good Shepherd NH's are very good layers (large, nice quality brown eggs) and meat birds...nice chests and meaty thighs...they mature rather quickly compared to many breeds...not as fast as the cornish x's but I'd say one can easily start harvesting as early as 4 months for fyers and later for roasters. These are from an old Oklahoma meat strain per Frank Jr. these truly seem to be a dual purpose breed.

 

[Arielle]

You have a more than reasonable set up to run free range. Do you improve the forages? Like adding clovers or alfalfa , maybe alf is too large a plant. CLovers would increase the proteins significantly and would improve the soils. OTherwise I'm not sure if they grow well in the NM climate or co-exhists with the primary product. Many many forages available.

There is a hunger to hatch eggs on BYC-- for the sheer enjoyment of it. ANd often folks make the switch from hatchery types to the real McCOy and will pay. Might be a place to sell when you have extra unwashed eggs.

I have used electro netting with great success for my sheep in wide open spaces. Underbrush tends to snag the fencing and become frustrating. Perhaps a semi permanent electronetting might be more useful for your set up?

How do you manage to make enough FF for a large number of burds?? I like that it doesnot go bad in the summer heat. ANd my birds eat it ike candy. My horses pick at it until it is gone-- that is, the fermented alfalfa cubes. THe birds pass on THAT! lol

As BOb says, go slow and down the middle.

 

[colburg]

You have a more than reasonable set up to run free range. Do you improve the forages? Like adding clovers or alfalfa , maybe alf is too large a plant. CLovers would increase the proteins significantly and would improve the soils. OTherwise I'm not sure if they grow well in the NM climate or co-exhists with the primary product. Many many forages available. 

There is a hunger to hatch eggs on BYC-- for the  sheer enjoyment of it.  ANd often folks make the switch from hatchery types to the real McCOy and will pay. Might be a place to sell when you have extra unwashed eggs. 

I  have used electro netting with great success for my sheep in wide open spaces. Underbrush tends to snag the fencing and become frustrating. Perhaps a semi permanent electronetting might be more useful for your set up?

How do you manage to make enough FF for a large number of burds?? I like that it doesnot go bad in the summer heat. ANd my birds eat it ike candy. My horses pick at it until it is gone-- that is, the fermented alfalfa cubes. THe birds pass on THAT! lol

As BOb says, go slow and down the middle. 

It's a pecan orchard. I've planted orchard grass, rye, brome, alfalfa, white and yellow clovers. Everything has trouble in the extremely shady areas. Alfalfa is doing well in young trees with small canopies.

Attempted legumes for Nitrogen help in the soil, may try medics one day, but alfalfa is a main crop around here, so I may start triple cropping with chickens/alfalfa/ pecans.

The orchard has an 8' game fence around it, though I've shot one fox and several coons and skunks in there, it keeps the chickens in.

As far as FF, I switched to a 35gal trash can a few weeks ago. Only refill it once a week or so for 60 layers. I also have several 35 and 42 plastic drums if need arises.

 

[Arielle]

A nice variety of farages. KEeps the birds interested and eating.

Have you considered moveing the chickens from section to section, controlling the pattern of eating in the pecan orchard?? THe benefit I have seen with sheep is you can control the grazing. Move the flock on to fresh area before it is over grazed, and not come back for many weeks when it has recovered. Apparently this is valuable for internal parasite control too. Some monitoring is still required.

THe 32 gal drum/ trash can has given me the idea to move the FF inside for the winter once I have found a suitable container.

That 8" fence is doing well if you have only seen a few problem animals. Are you considering a LGD??