Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[RedRidge]

I have Italian Maremma - 5 of them - that are well over 100 lbs each. So I go through some food. They eat lot of raw (we raise extra rabbit and poultry specifically for them and add extra beef, lamb and pork fat in the winter since we are working toward sustainability here on the farm), but I do feed some kibble too. Low quality kibble goes right through with little nutritional value and lots of waste - literally. That's why dogs fed low quality kibble poop a lot more than those fed higher quality food. And I need to assure my dogs are getting all the protein and fat they need to work outdoors 365/24/7.
I've never had a weight issue (too low or high) or health issue with any of the Maremma. They've never been to the vet (they get on farm rabies once a year) and their parents and grandparents were still working and guarding well into their mid teens.

 

[DesertChic]

Maybe at YOUR house the poop would run out if the dog? Never has happened here. Nice, small, dark stools as a dog should put out. No need to overfeed here either...one 2 c. scoop per day for my large dogs(60-140 lbs). My dogs are and always have been healthy and happy as they come! I hear it all the time how Ol' Roy makes for loose, pale stools and unhealthy animals and I don't believe a word of it...never saw it, so I don't believe it.

Maybe in house dogs that don't get exercise, forage for other foods along with, and can't live a life that keeps them naturally healthy outdoors, people are seeing these things? It just don't happen here, so that dog just won't hunt. It's rhetoric as far as I am concerned. I'm assuming that ALL dog food has to be cooked at high temps and that would mean that ALL nutrients in ANY dog food would loose nutritional value, if we were going to use that yardstick.

Dogs, like chickens and people, are different. My dogs can't eat Ol' Roy at all. I tried them on it when our budget was once especially tight. Two of my dogs had those horrible, runny poops you've heard about and one would literally throw up a couple times per day (she's a rescue dog with health issues from birth). I gave the dog food to my neighbor who uses it religiously with no problems. Both of us have both mutts and purebred dogs, but of different breeds. Some dogs are just hardier. Go figure.

You're right about dog food processing though. I once worked with a guy who had worked at a processing plant for dog food. He even showed me photos he'd taken to make his point that dog food production is really, really gross and doesn't leave much in the way of nutrition in the food. That seems to be the overall trend in this country....over-process food and then add artificial nutrients that were stripped from the food during processing. *Sigh* Is it any wonder we have so many pervasive health issues in this country?

My dogs aren't foragers, but I do give them some of the surplus from my garden and occasionally, as a treat, cooked eggs or raw meat (from reliable sources) or cooked poultry to boost their health. It's made a huge difference. I've also recently discovered that one of my dog seems to really like meal worms. He downed about 1-2 cups of them before I caught him....the little bugger.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote: Again...I'm not seeing that with my dogs. No extra poops here. All nutritional needs are supplied for my dogs to work outdoors all their lives. Feeding "higher quality" feed might make one feel better about the choice, but when I can get the same performance out of "lower quality" feed, then I'm okay with that.

Quote:

I've never had wt. issues here either or health issues. No vet visits...and my dogs work on the farm well into their teens as well. On Ol' Roy. No giant poops. No skin issues. No allergies. No health problems at all.

It seems that both of us can get favorable results with our chosen manner of feeding without downgrading the other person's choices, so the debate is a moot point. Ol' Roy has served me well and I see no problems with feeding it, my dogs thrive on it and their digestion is stellar, as is their health and work performance.

 

[gjensen]

I tend to agree with Bee that some of the cheaper feeds that include corn is not necessarily bad. A lot of science has went into formulating an acceptable ration using available ingredients. It is more about the complete ration than it is individual ingredients. We know that nutrition does not work that way, and feed is a sum of it's parts, and not the parts themselves necessarily.

Sometimes our preferences our more about us, and our ideals than it is anything else. The advertisements are directed towards us, and not the dogs. I smile at the lengths they will go through to make dog food appealing to the dog owner.

I would imagine that there is a degree of variability concerning how one dog might do on a particular ration compared to another. It would seam that one dog, breed, strain, etc. could be prone to becoming overweight on a particular ration where another would not. However, I have never had overweight dogs so I cannot speak from experience.
I do have a sister that feeds the same feed as myself, and has an overweight dog. This same dog loses the extra weight when she has spent lengths of time at my place. For this dog, it is more about the extras and quantity of exercise.

I will admit that not all of the cheap feed is ok. I have tried some that definitely were not, and some that were ok.

So maybe I am in the middle. I do not get excited about corn as an ingredient in dog food, but I do not get worked up over it either. If I did not end up with a dog that had corn and wheat allergies, I probably would swing one way more than another.

We can all gauge the fitness of our dogs, and like the birds, they tell on us.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I agree. The grow out on the BR I have are slow as molasses, but they might have potential as a large roaster. They are big that is for sure.

I don't mind a shower growth rate IF they forage well and texture and flavor is decent after that growth. I want to be able to hatch in Feb and butcher in Oct.

I have Delawares from Kathyinmo's recreated strain. I think the huge frames are from the BR influence. Unfortunately, they also have the slow growth. It's a priority for me to get them maturing faster.
They hatched between Feb-May and we butchered in Oct. My husband prefers to take them to a processor, due to the quantity of birds. They complained that the birds were too big, which I didn't understand. The Delaware carcasses averaged 6 lbs. The bone structure and size of the legs made them look much larger.
The texture, even on the older Dels has been exceptional in this batch. Much more tender than expected for butchering so late. The flavor is also delicious. My husband has never liked the idea of eating our own chickens. He is now convinced, says this is the best chicken that he's ever eaten.

 

[Beekissed]

Wise words.

Same goes for poultry feed, for the most part. A person can buy the non-GMO, organic, low corn, high protein, game bird feeds, blah, blah, blah and I can get the same performance and stellar health in my flock from layer mash ground fresh at my local mill that costs me $9.90 per 50#. Throwing money at something doesn't necessarily make it better, it just means someone paid more than someone else for the exact same outcome. Everyone is free to do what they please about feeding themselves and their animals, but money is not the deciding factor on what makes something "good".

My brother was just out to my place last week and, as usual, I get the "I paid more for this than you did for that, so you have a cheap, no good product". I bought some Golden Comet hens between 1-2 yrs of age~retired layers~ for $1 a piece and brought them home, fed them on fermented feed for 3-4 wks to sweeten the meat, and then I butchered them, canned them to use them for soup.

My brother, on the other hand, feels that the chicken he buys from the store to make soup with is obviously superior in quality...simply because he paid more money for it. He told his kids that, in the end, you get what you pay for and I was eating "$1 chickens" that were "too tough to eat".

I explained that the canning process renders their meat as tender as a young bird and they were all the more flavorful due to their age and the good texture of the meat.....whereas the meat he was eating, though expensive, lacked flavor and texture and was raised on commercial feeds in filthy, crowded and inhumane conditions, killed while still a baby, processed at a plant on an assembly line and had been bleached and irradiated to try and rid it of potentially fatal pathogens...and finally delivered to his store after being transported from who knows where(no poultry processors within hundreds of miles of this place) and placed into packaging that has carbon dioxide injected into the air space to insure his meat stays pink looking until he buys it many days later.

Yep, ya get what ya pay for alright. End result? We both had chicken soup.....I feel a little better about mine, though.

 

[Fentress]

I have Delawares from Kathyinmo's recreated strain. I think the huge frames are from the BR influence. Unfortunately, they also have the slow growth. It's a priority for me to get them maturing faster.
They hatched between Feb-May and we butchered in Oct. My husband prefers to take them to a processor, due to the quantity of birds. They complained that the birds were too big, which I didn't understand. The Delaware carcasses averaged 6 lbs. The bone structure and size of the legs made them look much larger.
The texture, even on the older Dels has been exceptional in this batch. Much more tender than expected for butchering so late. The flavor is also delicious. My husband has never liked the idea of eating our own chickens. He is now convinced, says this is the best chicken that he's ever eaten.

So yours were about 24-30 weeks old? How did you cook it? I'm at 30 weeks and hope to cull this weekend. One of the Heritage recipes I have, places the seasoned bird in a granitware roaster at 300 degrees without any water added. Kind of a hyrbid method between a high tempature dry roast and brazing. I hope mine is not too tuff for this method.

 

[ronott1]

So yours were about 24-30 weeks old? How did you cook it? I'm at 30 weeks and hope to cull this weekend. One of the Heritage recipes I have, places the seasoned bird in a granitware roaster at 300 degrees without any water added. Kind of a hyrbid method between a high tempature dry roast and brazing. I hope mine is not too tuff for this method.

That is still a brazing method. The chicken will give off juice ant the granite roaster will radiate heat from all sides.

Be sure to brine the chicken.

It will be very tasty and should not be tough.

 

[Fentress]

thanks

 

[capayvalleychick]

So yours were about 24-30 weeks old? How did you cook it? I'm at 30 weeks and hope to cull this weekend. One of the Heritage recipes I have, places the seasoned bird in a granitware roaster at 300 degrees without any water added. Kind of a hyrbid method between a high tempature dry roast and brazing. I hope mine is not too tuff for this method.

I've been cooking the largest birds first, so about 30 weeks, maybe 32 max. I've used a graniteware roaster at 300 degrees, which had the best results. Also a crockpot, no water.
The texture of these Dels is so much more tender than others that I have cooked at this same age. Even the legs are perfectly tender.

I never brine my chicken, btw. I do age it for 3 days in a cooler before freezing.