Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[RedRidge]

 
So yours were about 24-30 weeks old? How did you cook it? I'm at 30 weeks and hope to cull this weekend. One of the Heritage recipes I have, places the seasoned bird in a granitware roaster at 300 degrees without any water added. Kind of a hyrbid method between a high tempature dry roast and brazing. I hope mine is not too tuff for this method.

I've been cooking the largest birds first, so about 30 weeks, maybe 32 max. I've used a graniteware roaster at 300 degrees, which had the best results. Also a crockpot, no water.
The texture of these Dels is so much more tender than others that I have cooked at this same age. Even the legs are perfectly tender.

I never brine my chicken, btw. I do age it for 3 days in a cooler before freezing.

Ours are about 36-40 weeks at butchering. I do exactly the same as you... No brine, cooler on ice for 3 days then into the freezer.

 

[Fentress]

Ours are about 36-40 weeks at butchering. I do exactly the same as you... No brine, cooler on ice for 3 days then into the freezer.

I may brine. My K's were not separated from the flock and they have been doing some chasing along with lots of free range. I did not separate them this year because I only had a few and young chickens by themselves are more at risk from hawks. In general, they are alot less aggressive than hatchery birds. I am quite pleased with thier behavior. I never could have kept hatchery K's under these conditions.

 

[bnjrob]

I may brine. My K's were not separated from the flock and they have been doing some chasing along with lots of free range. I did not separate them this year because I only had a few and young chickens by themselves are more at risk from hawks. In general, they are alot less aggressive than hatchery birds. I am quite pleased with thier behavior. I never could have kept hatchery K's under these conditions.

If I'm going to roast them instead of putting them into something, then I always brine them. Just easier to guarantee a nice flavored, tender bird that way.

 

[gjensen]

This is not a criticism of what you guys are doing, and I get why. Still, there is no way in the world that I would wait 40 wks for processing. At last years feed cost that would be (for me) around $22.70 per bird. Not only that, but the pullets from a similar strain would cost about 17.60 before laying their first egg, and that is not including the cost to maintain the breeders that produced that pullet. This is feed alone, and for me that is approximately 80% of the total cost. Again not including the cost to maintain the breeders. When 20% is added on and the breeders are factored in, that is very expensive poultry meat. Labor is not considered. I like chicken, but not that much.

These numbers which are only meant to illustrate, are revealing. I am sure these numbers can be debated, but some of these large breeds eat around 5oz of feed per day after 16wks. @ 16 wks, my fryers run about $6.40 per bird in feed. I try to make this first cull not too far away from the peak in the growth curve which generally coincides with molting into their adult feather which requires a lot of protein. From there, their rate of growth steadily declines.

The only thing that I process after 16 wks. is a percentage that made the original cut. 75% of the cockerels are cut in the first round. By 24wks I can tell who my best birds are. Past 24 wks. I only keep a few extras to see where they are at in the spring.

If we cull young, we can push rate of growth and early maturity. I understand that breeds and strains mature at different rates, but we will never see them improve unless we expect improvement. They will not improve unless we kill the birds that are running behind. And it isn't the size they get ultimately that makes them useful, as when they might reach useful weights.

Some of the breeds that we discuss were never meant to be meat birds. Dual purpose does not mean a meat bird. Dual purpose means cockerels that are not a waste product, and the hens have enough meat to give them a value when she is past her prime. Some make better fryers young than roasters late. Some were valued as roasters, and many of these were raised in battery cages where there exercise was restricted and fattened.

I realize that many raise there birds solely for evaluating them according to the Standard, and I am glad that they do. We would have little that was worth anything to talk about otherwise. On the other hand, if putting these birds to work is motivating, we should put them back to work. Otherwise they will wax worse and worse. If breed preservation is truly a consideration, they would be much more popular with a wider variety of people if they even performed at all. I attribute much of the Buckeyes renewed interest to the ALBC improvement efforts, and an interest in eating our own birds. As it is now, light fryers from Leghorns makes more sense economically, and that does not make a lot of sense.

Again this is not a criticism. I hope it is not taken that way. None of our birds are where they should or could be. I just do not see how we can make progress otherwise.

 

[RedRidge]

 This is not a criticism of what you guys are doing, and I get why. Still, there is no way in the world that I would wait 40 wks for processing. At last years feed cost that would be (for me) around $22.70 per bird. Not only that, but the pullets from a similar strain would cost about 17.60 before laying their first egg, and that is not including the cost to maintain the breeders that produced that pullet. This is feed alone, and for me that is approximately 80% of the total cost. Again not including the cost to maintain the breeders. When 20% is added on and the breeders are factored in, that is very expensive poultry meat. Labor is not considered. I like chicken, but not that much.

 These numbers which are only meant to illustrate, are revealing. I am sure these numbers can be debated, but some of these large breeds eat around 5oz of feed per day after 16wks. @ 16 wks, my fryers run about $6.40 per bird in feed. I try to make this first cull not too far away from the peak in the growth curve which generally coincides with molting into their adult feather which requires a lot of protein. From there, their rate of growth steadily declines.

 The only thing that I process after 16 wks. is a percentage that made the original cut. 75% of the cockerels are cut in the first round. By 24wks I can tell who my best birds are. Past 24 wks. I only keep a few extras to see where they are at in the spring.

 If we cull young, we can push rate of growth and early maturity. I understand that breeds and strains mature at different rates, but we will never see them improve unless we expect improvement. They will not improve unless we kill the birds that are running behind. And it isn't the size they get ultimately that makes them useful, as when they might reach useful weights.

 Some of the breeds that we discuss were never meant to be meat birds. Dual purpose does not mean a meat bird. Dual purpose means cockerels that are not a waste product, and the hens have enough meat to give them a value when she is past her prime. Some make better fryers young than roasters late. Some were valued as roasters, and many of these were raised in battery cages where there exercise was restricted and fattened.

 I realize that many raise there birds solely for evaluating them according to the Standard, and I am glad that they do. We would have little that was worth anything to talk about otherwise. On the other hand, if putting these birds to work is motivating, we should put them back to work. Otherwise they will wax worse and worse. If breed preservation is truly a consideration, they would be much more popular with a wider variety of people if they even performed at all. I attribute much of the Buckeyes renewed interest to the ALBC improvement efforts, and an interest in eating our own birds. As it is now, light fryers from Leghorns makes more sense economically, and that does not make a lot of sense.

 Again this is not a criticism. I hope it is not taken that way. None of our birds are where they should or could be. I just do not see how we can make progress otherwise.

You're making way too many assumptions about others management style.
The biggest of which is a feed bill. We are a self sustaining, high forage converting farm. If it doesn't grow out on forage alone it doesn't stay. This is true for cattle, sheep, rabbits and poultry.
Everything is carefully timed with the seasons to see to it this is possible. And more importantly, years of heavy culling for high forage conversion and parasite resistance make this very doable - to those willing to cull deep enough, something I have a very hard time convincing other people to do.
Each variety of livestock must feed us and be totally self supportive as a bare minimum (although profit is nice).
So while I think too many assumptions were being made you hit one very big nail on the head. No one I know culls deep enough and is picky enough about the genetics they perpetuate. ;-)

 

[neopolitancrazy]

... No one I know culls deep enough and is picky enough about the genetics they perpetuate. ;-)

Gee, here I thought keeping one cockerel out of 108 eggs incubated was culling pretty deep!

Seriously, kudos to you for your commitment to quality livestock.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[gjensen]

You're making way too many assumptions about others management style.
The biggest of which is a feed bill. We are a self sustaining, high forage converting farm. If it doesn't grow out on forage alone it doesn't stay. This is true for cattle, sheep, rabbits and poultry.
Everything is carefully timed with the seasons to see to it this is possible. And more importantly, years of heavy culling for high forage conversion and parasite resistance make this very doable - to those willing to cull deep enough, something I have a very hard time convincing other people to do.
Each variety of livestock must feed us and be totally self supportive as a bare minimum (although profit is nice).
So while I think too many assumptions were being made you hit one very big nail on the head. No one I know culls deep enough and is picky enough about the genetics they perpetuate. ;-)

I did not make a single assumption. You are assuming that I did. If you read it again instead of assuming that I was even referring to you, you will see that I clearly and simply laid out my position on the matter. I did not describe your own. I do not even know what your position is. The only point where your contributions (and others) were included was the references to the ages of the birds. I would figure that it was acceptable to refer to those numbers, to make my own case.

If you go back and read the post, not only will you not find your self there, you will see that I stated that the numbers were ONLY AN ILLUSTRATION and that they would debatable. Heck, the numbers I used were off the top of my head.
Numbers do not lie. It does not matter if it costs real money, monopoly money, or clover and fescue. It is still measurable. It settles a lot of speculation.

My view of these things is not new to this board. I share these views when the topics come up.

My points and my position is the same, but I do not expect everyone to feel the same.

Again, it was more about sharing how I see things. Not about how you do things. How you do things is not my business or concern, but I am sure that you do well.

 

[gjensen]

Gee, here I thought keeping one cockerel out of 108 eggs incubated was culling pretty deep!

Seriously, kudos to you for your commitment to quality livestock.
Best wishes,
Angela

I hope that is deep enough. I grew out as many, and I am going to keep a single cockerel myself. I need to do twice as many this coming year, but I doubt that I will. I am not sure that I will be able to.

 

[chickadoodles]

I got some White Chanteclers this spring and two of them have been laying for about a month one is not laying and she is not even red in the face yet. I do not understand why.
Also My Buckeye I got from Chris Mccary are now 8 months old and the pullets are not laying yet. Is this common for them to wait for spring?

I had planned on raising some pullets to start laying for the winter. Also if the one Chantecler is not laying yet should I move her to the layer flock? I don't know if that is something she will pass on to her off spring.
Thank you, Cheryl

 

[Fentress]

Here's a K who at 22 weeks was setting the pace for the rest of the group. Other K's have since caught up with him, but his quicker fleshing makes him a breeder for me. I think 20 weeks would be a a realistic goal for a first cull with this breed.