Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[BantyChooks]

Since you did not understand, I said "experts" in sarcasm. They know very little, and want anyone who does know anything out of the way so that they can impress people. Show records don't show much. I can show you newbies and novices with great show records. You are one that has pushed knowledgeable people away from these forums. Congratulations.

I'll make sure to tell Michael Gilbert that he doesn't know anything and his show records don't mean anything either, just because you said so. Should I say that to Walt and Matt too?

 

[Rye]

I'm not a big facebook user. I do belong to the apa, new hampshire breeders club, and a couple other groups.

Had a couple convo's with Walt there, but I just can't stand facebook.

Sad to hear that they no longer want to be bothered. While I can relate to that sentiment, there is still some of us who are really trying to produce good fowl. I can understand not wanting to bother with the majority of what's going on in the chicken world. I know it seems like a losing battle today.

I would also hate to see some of the old lines disappear along with the knowledge.

 

[Rye]

I didn't mean to start anything.

I can certainly see the difference between wisdom and someone who thinks they know everything. I've been around both types all of y life in many different demographics.

 

[gojira]

I'm not a big facebook user. I do belong to the apa, new hampshire breeders club, and a couple other groups.

Had a couple convo's with Walt there, but I just can't stand facebook.

Sad to hear that they no longer want to be bothered. While I can relate to that sentiment, there is still some of us who are really trying to produce good fowl. I can understand not wanting to bother with the majority of what's going on in the chicken world. I know it seems like a losing battle today.

I would also hate to see some of the old lines disappear along with the knowledge.

The APA group is not any better than BYC. I think knowledgeable people getting burned has a lot to do with the attitudes of new people coming in. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As far as losing the old lines, why would someone want to watch someone else ruin what they have worked hard on? I guess newbies will just have to pass what they have back and forth. I hope each generation has a few knowledgeable people around, but like I say, it might get more difficult to get them to say much. Take a look in history. Much of what people go by today is not based on the knowledgeable people of years gone by, but rather based on the people that said the most to feel they had some level of fame and notoriety.

 

[Rye]

Well thanks for the info. I guess I'll keep trucking along with the SOP in one hand and a bird in another.

 

[The Moonshiner]

 

[Rye]

The APA group is not any better than BYC. I think knowledgeable people getting burned has a lot to do with the attitudes of new people coming in. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As far as losing the old lines, why would someone want to watch someone else ruin what they have worked hard on? I guess newbies will just have to pass what they have back and forth. I hope each generation has a few knowledgeable people around, but like I say, it might get more difficult to get them to say much. Take a look in history. Much of what people go by today is not based on the knowledgeable people of years gone by, but rather based on the people that said the most to feel they had some level of fame and notoriety.

So I have pondered on this today while feeding the farm animals.

Some may not care about letting their lines go with them. Yet there are people ready to take up the challenge in an honest way. Lines are lines because everyone has a different eye/vison. So while somebody will do their best to keep them going, their will be changes over time. So maybe some time should be spent on finding a good steward instead of letting them go. I'm not advocating to letting the genetics go to anyone who comes along, but letting the old breeds/lines die just seems wasteful.

I do believe I understand where you're coming from. Just not sure what your idea of good fowl is. I saw some pics of a New Hampshire cock that won best American at the Bluebonnet classic in Texas. I would not want that bird in my breeding pen. And I'll leave it at that.

The Private apa group seems pretty good to me though. Some big name breeders with some nice looking fowl are pretty active there.

There is a very large problem today when it comes to Hatchers and Colors vs actual breeders of fowl. But not everyone coming up in this culture is falling into this trap. When the older folks with the know how go hide away, it only leaves so many paths for people to go. Some choose the hard path, most go the easy route. Would be nice to reverse that, but it's not gonna help without educating, explaining, and showing the masses why the hard route is better.

Found a pic of that cock.

 

[gojira]

So I have pondered on this today while feeding the farm animals.

Some may not care about letting their lines go with them. Yet there are people ready to take up the challenge in an honest way. Lines are lines because everyone has a different eye/vison. So while somebody will do their best to keep them going, their will be changes over time. So maybe some time should be spent on finding a good steward instead of letting them go. I'm not advocating to letting the genetics go to anyone who comes along, but letting the old breeds/lines die just seems wasteful.

I do believe I understand where you're coming from. Just not sure what your idea of good fowl is. I saw some pics of a New Hampshire cock that won best American at the Bluebonnet classic in Texas. I would not want that bird in my breeding pen. And I'll leave it at that.

The Private apa group seems pretty good to me though. Some big name breeders with some nice looking fowl are pretty active there.

There is a very large problem today when it comes to Hatchers and Colors vs actual breeders of fowl. But not everyone coming up in this culture is falling into this trap. When the older folks with the know how go hide away, it only leaves so many paths for people to go. Some choose the hard path, most go the easy route. Would be nice to reverse that, but it's not gonna help without educating, explaining, and showing the masses why the hard route is better.

Found a pic of that cock.

There seem to be very few people who are serious and really want to learn. People seem to be of the mindset if something is outside of a certain zone, it is wrong. People do not use common sense anymore. If it is in a book, or on the internet, it is true. Even if something has been shown to be false, it is still true to some people, because that is what they read or heard. You say people should go out if their way to find a steward, but it should be the other way around. People should prove themselves before someone chooses them to be a steward. Too many people says things, and have nothing to back it up. It is better to have a line or variety or breed die out rather than have someone screw something up and put someone else's name to it. It is better for something to die out than to watch it be driven into the ground.

Why would you not want that New Hampshire in your breeding pen? I can come up with many reasons, but unfortunately, that is the current fad. I would not be surprised to see the New Hampshire standard change to embrace that type of bird.

I am not a fan of the APA. They seem to contradict themselves. What do you consider a big name breeder? Most of the true big name breeders are dead, or are not online at all.

I think too many people make things much harder than they need to be. People sometimes make things so hard that they go in circles, or backwards. But, they are oblivious to what is happening, because they are doing what an "expert" told them to do. People want to believe legends and old marketing ploys, and don't want to use common sense. So why would someone trust them with something they have put time and effort into?

 

[Afrank]

That I do not know.

Ok, thank you!

 

[Rye]

I gave no notion of anyone going out of there way. I assumed the effort would be made from the steward, but effort is needed to find a steward.

We will have to agree to disagree on the line dying out. I do not find it better to have it die out.

I could explain why I don't like the New Hamp, and I might, later. I at least now understand where you are coming from. I doubt the APA is going to change the SOP. But they sure will go outside the sop to place a ribbon for some reason.

I am only going off of big time breeders as those guys bringing breeds back and showing them. Winning with nice looking fowl. I can't know Farmer Bob who lives by that big oak down your road. I can't know all of the old cockers who have passed or are not online. I also take nothing away from them either. I'm not asking someone to go out of their way to educate me.

I'm sure what you say is true of many people. I make things too hard sometimes because I overthink things. It's a fault of mine because I want it to be right. Regardless of that, Experts come in all flavors. Following anything blindly is lame. Some still do have common sense. It just gets drowned out by the Backyard crowd wanting to snuggle. It also gets lost within breed clubs, breeders, and chicken folk. Legends are what they are. Seems to me only Hatcheries promote the legends and standards. Maybe labeling laws should apply to hatcheries and they should list the weights of their birds and not the standard?

You seem to lump a lot into a little we can't control. I'm wanting and asking for help for not just me, but others like me. Where is one to go?