Feed Comparision Advice

[BlessedChaosHomestead]

Ay updates on this change? I'm considering using this feed too. The 22% Meat Bird Start to Finish - but I'm also considering the Show Champions starter, developer, finisher too

Ay updates on this change? I'm considering using this feed too. The 22% Meat Bird Start to Finish - but I'm also considering the Show Champions starter, developer, finisher too

We still just using Layer from TM.
Our current chicks & meatbirds are on Kalmbach’s line. (Call ducks stay on Kalmbach’s Duck & Goose.)
We have some scratch to supplement for them.

(And idk why it’s copying the reply twice. Using the app.)

 

[RememberTheWay]

Umm…the NatureCrest chick & layer has pork protein as like the second ingredient.

Kalmbach is what we are feeding our meatbirds atm. (And current chicks.) They ran out at the store so are eating on turkey/gamebird. But got another bag now of Meatbird. (All non-gmo.)
I like Kalmbach’s line just wish it was cheaper.

You're right. I look at a LOT of feed tags my apologies for getting mixed up. What I didn't like about Nature Crest were the actual numbers for nutrients though.

These screenshots are probably going to be all mixed up but I tried to make sure I marked them and highlighted the pertinent information. I don't like the nutritional value on Nature crest. Especially when comparing it to their show and quail lines. Personally I think I also get the most bang for my buck by using starter and maybe developer. I can get TM quail for about 20 a bag here. I also can get the champions line from kalmbach for starter for 19.99 and 20.99 for developer. This is probably what I will be switching to. Unless I decide to go with 22% start to finish meat or their premix 20% and add fishmeal and supplements haven't decided yet. If anyone has or is using any of these I would love opinions

 

[RememberTheWay]

Yep. Too expensive, plus would have to pre-order & then make sure we were available for the drop. Which up until last Sat, Was not feasible as it was on Sat & those were market days.

I thought they were expensive too

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Coming back to this, WAY late. Apologies for the delay. a Hurricane, a second hurricane affecting friend and family, and real life all got in the way.

I've used Tucker Milling. We'll come back to that point.

16.5% CP meets or exceeds minimum US recommends for adult production layers. Its a fine number for a "rooster (breeder) maintainer" type formulation. It is WAY low for a bird intended as meat - which is the usual purpose of Bresse.

Typical meat bird feeding involves relatively high crude protein with emphasis on Methionine and Lysine to support connective tissues, muscle development, and large breasts (since the US has a preference for breast meat over thigh - though genetics has a large part in that).

Part of the reason Soy is so popular in chicken feeds is because soy meal has a high CP, low fat, and one of the highest Methionine contents of plant ingredients. Its also reasonably priced.

If you have a "dual purpose" flock, and it sounds like you do if you are eating the Bresse males and selling eggs, there is no "optimum" feed regimen, because those two radically different purposes have substantially different nutritional needs to support them.

I, and many others here on BYC, feed my dual purpose flock a 20% crude protien feed with an emphasis on Met and Lys, then offer free choice oyser shell so my girls can get the calcium them need. Its more crude protein than the girls truly need, but there are slightly improved health outcomes associated, slightly reduced molt durations, slight improvements in rate of lay, egg size, egg nutritional value, and overall appearance (glossiness, feather structure, etc). How slight? You will never notice without extremely good record keeping. Most of those are given improvement estimates of 1-3%.

Actual dedicated meat birds are raised on higher crude protein still Often beginning at 24-26% then reducing CP over a 6-8 week period to around 20% while increasing the fat content.

Chickens don't actually put on intramuscular fat like we do - increasing the fat content results in a heavier bird for market, yes (and corn is cheaper than soy by a fair margin), but doen't make the bird more tender or more flavorful in the way a fatty cut of beef is better to a lean cut for quick cooking.

Now, Tucker Milling specifically. Tucker Milling overcomes the problems of not using soy thru a combination of ingredients - synthetic amino acids (DL-methionine analogue, L-threonie, L-Lysine) as well as animal based proteins (porcine blood and bone meal, fish meal). The numbers on their guaranteed feed label are very good.

In spite of that, I wasn't impressed with the feed when I used it for my birds one year. It should perform better than it did. No reason for it that I can discern, it simply didn't perform better than cheaper feed whose label was not as good. (I was using the nature crest starter/grower). There's plenty of stuff on their label whose value is debatable, and whose rate of inclusion is so low as to be essentially w/o value except as "buzz words" for advertising purposes.

I don't spend much time in the Organic or non-GMO space both because its remarkably difficult to find a nutritionally good formulation for anything other than laying hens in that space, and because the price tags are high, while local availability (and freshness) is low.

There are a lot of people here on BYC using Kalmbach feeds with good result. Pricing is reasonable (for most), nutritional labels are pretty good, and the reported results are consistently adequate to good, relative to expectations given their label. The one caveat is that their whole gtrain feeds (and they have a number of them) should be either fermented or fed as wet mash to ensure the birds get the "fines" (where the vitamin premix is found) and have harder time selecting prefered seeds (like sunflower) from less favored seeds (like certain millets). I've not used them myself, but on the strength of recommednds from those whose opinions I trust, I can recommend at least exploring those options.

and as @SourRoses said earlier in the thread, the NatureCrest layer isn't designed for anything other then adult layers. Its not a good feed to raise birds (of any purpose) on - ad the consequences of poor nutrition as hatchlings, juveniles, and adolescents will stay with them for a life time. Its not that the Layer will harm them in ways you can see in the short term (and three years is short term) unless you know what to look for*, its that they will never meet their genetic potential.

As analogy, look to the people of North Korea. To another North Korean, they all look much the same, seemingly healthy and in line with expectations. Of course, the Korean War resulted iin two populations of essentially identical genetic background. Only one, North Korea, continued with the same diet they've had for centuries, and the second, South Korea, has now had several generations of children raised on more modern, more nutritionally adequate, diets. End result? The average South Korean male is 3" taller, about 15# heavier, and has a longer life expectancy, even after correcting for the results of modern medicine. So to with your birds.

and sadly, I'm not familiar enough with local mills in your area that I can suggest other options.

*Many of those symptoms are frequently mistakenly identified as normal consequences of aging - gout and urinary/excretion issues being among the most common. When you butcher your males, especially, be alert to a chalky or white powdery accumlation on the organs generally, and pay very close attention to the kidneys and (to lesser extent) liver - again looking for chalk, but also crystal formations. If you see it, you are seeing a classic calcium toxicity presentation well along in the pathology.