Feeds affecting laying?

[JacinLarkwell]

Oops reader view didn’t show link. Got it. Makes sense. I know for goats we laugh that they have goat and sheep feed and I wouldn’t dare feed my goats the same as sheep. We give as little feed as possible to our goats. Like I said was curious given the main contents and first list ingredients are fairly similar. Our male goats would get sick with stones if on too much feed which could kill them fairly quickly….

Goat feed has to be different than sheep feed. Sheep can't have copper in their feed

 

[Bhubbard]

Goat feed has to be different than sheep feed. Sheep can't have copper in their feed

Correct

 

[knotty]

I’m glad to see this topic being discussed. I’m grateful that there are some folks who have the means and are willing to have some testing done and I look forward to reading the results.

I’ve not posted anything in quite a long time and I hope that I don’t alienate anyone by sharing some of my thoughts.
But then life is not without the occasional risk.

In regards to the CIA’s involvement in the JFK assassination. Please read;
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a42203730/lee-harvey-oswald-cia-connection/
or
https://www.newsweek.com/new-documents-shed-light-cias-connection-lee-harvey-oswald-1765105

For anyone wondering who “they“ is. I recommend this;
https://www.corbettreport.com/what-is-the-future-of-food/
and this;
https://www.corbettreport.com/who-is-behind-the-great-food-reset/
and finally this;
https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-future-of-food-is-ours-to-decide?utm_source=/inbox&utm_medium=reader2

Please don’t label me as a “conspiracy theorist“. I most certainly am not one. I am a “conspiracy realist“.
Anyone paying attention for the past few decades would have to be also. (If they’re being honest and aren’t suffering from cognitive dissonance)

As for my girls, I have a little Serama that is less than three years old who hasn’t laid an egg in two months. The other five are Isa Browns who are only about five months old and haven’t started laying yet.
I bought the chicks after all my other hens died one by one for unknown reasons.
I’v been feeding them Purina Layena.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Oops reader view didn’t show link. Got it. Makes sense. I know for goats we laugh that they have goat and sheep feed and I wouldn’t dare feed my goats the same as sheep. We give as little feed as possible to our goats. Like I said was curious given the main contents and first list ingredients are fairly similar. Our male goats would get sick with stones if on too much feed which could kill them fairly quickly….

I've had the same problem when I'm not at my PC. All good.

 

[Bhubbard]

I’m glad to see this topic being discussed. I’m grateful that there are some folks who have the means and are willing to have some testing done and I look forward to reading the results.

I’ve not posted anything in quite a long time and I hope that I don’t alienate anyone by sharing some of my thoughts.
But then life is not without the occasional risk.

In regards to the CIA’s involvement in the JFK assassination. Please read;
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a42203730/lee-harvey-oswald-cia-connection/
or
https://www.newsweek.com/new-documents-shed-light-cias-connection-lee-harvey-oswald-1765105

For anyone wondering who “they“ is. I recommend this;
https://www.corbettreport.com/what-is-the-future-of-food/
and this;
https://www.corbettreport.com/who-is-behind-the-great-food-reset/
and finally this;
https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-future-of-food-is-ours-to-decide?utm_source=/inbox&utm_medium=reader2

Please don’t label me as a “conspiracy theorist“. I most certainly am not one. I am a “conspiracy realist“.
Anyone paying attention for the past few decades would have to be also. (If they’re being honest and aren’t suffering from cognitive dissonance)

As for my girls, I have a little Serama that is less than three years old who hasn’t laid an egg in two months. The other five are Isa Browns who are only about five months old and haven’t started laying yet.
I bought the chicks after all my other hens died one by one for unknown reasons.
I’v been feeding them Purina Layena.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I had a bag of new feed in back of suburban so I can post now will attach my old tonight.

View attachment 3391457
View attachment 3391458

Thank you again for sharing this. Let me start by saying that's a remarkably good feed for a local mill and a layer ration. Someone cared a bit and had some real knowledge when they put that together.

Lets compare, shall we?? Going to post in a Spreadsheet to make it easy.

	Minimum Recommend	Producer's Pride 16% Layer	Walnut Hill 16% Layer
Crude Protein	16%	16%	16%
Crude Fat	+/- 3.5%	1.5% Min	2.5% Min
Crude Fiber	+/- 3.5%	10% Max	4.5% Max
Calcium	+/- 4.0%	+/- 4%	+/- 4%
Phosphorus	0.40%	0.40%	0.64%
Lysine	0.60%	0.60%	0.80%
Methionine	0.30%	0.32%	0.36%

In short, PP 16% Layer meets or exceeds the minimum recommends on crude protein, key (disclosed) amino acids, Calcium Phosphorus. Fat is low, fiber is high - likely because its basic grain mix (the bulk of the feed) is also used by PP in mixes intended for other types of livestock. Ingredients begin Wheat Middlings, Ground Corn, Corn Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles, Calcium Carbonate, Dehulled Soybean Meal. We know the calcium carbonate is what is used to provide the 4% calcium by weight, which tells you how little soy is in it.

For comparison, even though the total crude protein is the same, Walnut Hill's blend has about 12% more Methionine (Connective tissue, skin, digestive tract), 33% more Lysine (Muscle building mostly) and over 50% more phosphorus (helps bone growth and Ca : P ion balance, buffers excess calcium, too.) Its also much lower fiber, less chance the high fiber will slow digestion or block nutrient uptake in undesired ways. It gets better. Ingredients Corn, Soybean Meal, Processed Grain Byproducts, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate... Dicalcium Phoshate has been studied as alternative to Calcium Carbonate (oyster shell, among other source), and is used widely in parts of Africa and the middle east. Calcium tocixity is much lower when calcium is provided in the form of Calcium Diphosphate as compared to calcium carbonate. I judge it a substantially superior feed. Obviously, I have no way to know how much corn is being blended with how much soy, but if I had to guess, I'd say its probably 60% corn, 20-25% soy meal - meanin that in addition to the excellent Lysine level, it has a very good Threonione level. "Processed Grain Byproducts"? I'm guessing they are looking for a way to increase both Met (a little) and Tryptophan (a bit more) - something like wheat middlings perhaps

Frankly, its better than the layer I'm getting right now, by a fair margin.

 

[Show Sebright]

I’m not sure what’s doing it but I had my hens on dumor and purina for a few years and these last 6 months we haven’t got a egg, my girls are always in a state of half molt. My tractor supply never had the purina in stock so I switched to nature wise. My girls are laying so many eggs in the cold and they finally got all their feathers back. I don’t know what’s in the purina owned feeds but I really don’t trust them now.

 

[Folly's place]

Flock Raiser has been good here, 20% protein is better than the 16% layer type feeds. And checking those mill dates every time!
Choice depends a lot on what's fresh where you shop most of the time, and then best value in price per pound as eaten.
Nutrena never has fit the bill for me here.
And sadly, no local mills still in operation to try.
Mary

 

[Bhubbard]

Thank you again for sharing this. Let me start by saying that's a remarkably good feed for a local mill and a layer ration. Someone cared a bit and had some real knowledge when they put that together.

Lets compare, shall we?? Going to post in a Spreadsheet to make it easy.

	Minimum Recommend	Producer's Pride 16% Layer	Walnut Hill 16% Layer
Crude Protein	16%	16%	16%
Crude Fat	+/- 3.5%	1.5% Min	2.5% Min
Crude Fiber	+/- 3.5%	10% Max	4.5% Max
Calcium	+/- 4.0%	+/- 4%	+/- 4%
Phosphorus	0.40%	0.40%	0.64%
Lysine	0.60%	0.60%	0.80%
Methionine	0.30%	0.32%	0.36%

In short, PP 16% Layer meets or exceeds the minimum recommends on crude protein, key (disclosed) amino acids, Calcium Phosphorus. Fat is low, fiber is high - likely because its basic grain mix (the bulk of the feed) is also used by PP in mixes intended for other types of livestock. Ingredients begin Wheat Middlings, Ground Corn, Corn Distillers Dried Grains with Solubles, Calcium Carbonate, Dehulled Soybean Meal. We know the calcium carbonate is what is used to provide the 4% calcium by weight, which tells you how little soy is in it.

For comparison, even though the total crude protein is the same, Walnut Hill's blend has about 12% more Methionine (Connective tissue, skin, digestive tract), 33% more Lysine (Muscle building mostly) and over 50% more phosphorus (helps bone growth and Ca : P ion balance, buffers excess calcium, too.) Its also much lower fiber, less chance the high fiber will slow digestion or block nutrient uptake in undesired ways. It gets better. Ingredients Corn, Soybean Meal, Processed Grain Byproducts, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate... Dicalcium Phoshate has been studied as alternative to Calcium Carbonate (oyster shell, among other source), and is used widely in parts of Africa and the middle east. Calcium tocixity is much lower when calcium is provided in the form of Calcium Diphosphate as compared to calcium carbonate. I judge it a substantially superior feed. Obviously, I have no way to know how much corn is being blended with how much soy, but if I had to guess, I'd say its probably 60% corn, 20-25% soy meal - meanin that in addition to the excellent Lysine level, it has a very good Threonione level. "Processed Grain Byproducts"? I'm guessing they are looking for a way to increase both Met (a little) and Tryptophan (a bit more) - something like wheat middlings perhaps

Frankly, its better than the layer I'm getting right now, by a fair margin.

You are awesome. Thank you for putting that together!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You are awesome. Thank you for putting that together!

Nah, I'm an @$$ - but an occasionally useful one. Glad to add value to the conversation. Its what BYC is for. Have a great evening.