FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[debp]

Thanks for the information and link. I like the idea of milled grain, but I would think for chicks finer would be better. I might shift out the larger pieces (maybe 10-20%) and save them for scratch when they are grown.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Thanks for the information and link. I like the idea of milled grain, but I would think for chicks finer would be better. I might shift out the larger pieces (maybe 10-20%) and save them for scratch when they are grown.

You may be able to grind them more in your food processor. Unless you have a mill ... I've been wanting to get one. Some aren't too spendy.

 

[LindaB220]

Here is a link some info on grit, and what sizes work for what ages of birds. I wish I had a source of river sand in various sizes that I could "harvest" right off the farm so birds could pick up the exact size they want ...

http://www.tccmaterials.com/pdf/CSgritdata.pdf

One of the things I've been looking into recently is the question of particle size for feeding chickens. Whole grains vs. milled grains. It seems there is a trend recently toward whole grains for the "boutique" feeds. It sure makes an attractive feed that "looks" natural and it sure makes it easier to tell what's in the feed. But are "whole grains" what's best for the birds?

From what I can understand, a chick can "handle" a fairly large particle size, but I also know an adult rooster can choke to death on a pea (happened to a friend of mine). From what I understand, a chicken (of any age) has a strong biological preference for finding and picking up particles the size, color & shape of cracked corn.

From what I understand, a chicken will get more nutrition out of milled grains, AND from what I read yesterday, the phytase is more easily activated when the grains that are fermented are ground first. So that's my preference ... ground grains for feed. But I do like whole/cracked for scratch.

Leslie, I've been putting BOSS in the FF for a week now and that's what my 5 wk olds are eating first. I do have a processor so maybe I'll buzz it first. Thanks

 

[LindaB220]

You may be able to grind them more in your food processor. Unless you have a mill ... I've been wanting to get one. Some aren't too spendy.

Like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FEED-MILL-G...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac97a0398

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Like this?

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/FEED-MILL-G...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac97a0398

That one looks cool! And it's a great price.

Leslie, I've been putting BOSS in the FF for a week now and that's what my 5 wk olds are eating first.  I do have a processor so maybe I'll buzz it first.  Thanks

I don't know how much I'd worry about it. I haven't had to think about it yet ... just had our first batch of chicks for the season hatch today. We got a late start!

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks so much, Beekissed. I will hold off on the garlic.

I just this morning started a small batch of fermented feed. My chicks will be 4 weeks old on Friday, and I want to get their GI tract ready for the move out to the coop. But, I do have a question about the size of grain a chick can handle. I get my feed from a small mill that other local BYC folks have recommended. I noticed when I opened my second bag that it was much coarser than my first bag which was already fairly coarse, compared to commercial feed (I got the bags on the same delivery). The corn and roasted soybeans are broken just in half, a few left whole. There are a lot of fines in there, too, though. I have been giving a pretty fine grit that I collect on the property, but I still worry this is too coarse for these still fairly small chicks. I contacted the mill and they said they had had some consistency issues with their new machine. Should I shift out the large pieces? What is too large? Wouldn't fermenting help them digest the larger pieces?

Here is a link some info on grit, and what sizes work for what ages of birds. I wish I had a source of river sand in various sizes that I could "harvest" right off the farm so birds could pick up the exact size they want ...

http://www.tccmaterials.com/pdf/CSgritdata.pdf

One of the things I've been looking into recently is the question of particle size for feeding chickens. Whole grains vs. milled grains. It seems there is a trend recently toward whole grains for the "boutique" feeds. It sure makes an attractive feed that "looks" natural and it sure makes it easier to tell what's in the feed. But are "whole grains" what's best for the birds?

From what I can understand, a chick can "handle" a fairly large particle size, but I also know an adult rooster can choke to death on a pea (happened to a friend of mine). From what I understand, a chicken (of any age) has a strong biological preference for finding and picking up particles the size, color & shape of cracked corn.

From what I understand, a chicken will get more nutrition out of milled grains, AND from what I read yesterday, the phytase is more easily activated when the grains that are fermented are ground first. So that's my preference ... ground grains for feed. But I do like whole/cracked for scratch.

From what I've seen over the years, whole grain or cracked, a 4 wk old bird can handle it...I've even fed layer mash to new chicks before and that was when I fed dry. They will pick out the particles they can eat the best....if you notice them leaving too large of grains behind, then you might consider it too large but I think you will find they can eat it. I mixed the layer mash I am using now with chick starter for this latest batch and watched a tiny RIR pick up a big piece of corn, throw it on the ground several times and finally swallow it down. The only grit they had for digesting that was from a clump of soil I had placed in their brooder.

I think you all are maybe underestimating the power of a gizzard...since time began folks have fed poultry whole grains without problems. You can find appropriate grit along any little stream or river bank you should happen to pass around your home, you don't have to buy grit. If you free range, it's likely they are finding adequate grit on their own.

Since the grains are ground in the gizzard, they are still getting ground/cracked grains in their diet, so getting more nutrition out of milled grains? I'm not real sure on that one....in the end they are all ground. Not too often have I seen whole grains come out the other end of a chicken...it happens, but I've only seen it once or twice in all the times I've had chickens. I've seen a fair load of poop in all those years.

My granny fed whole corn to junior and adult birds and corn meal to chicks, but soon as they were out in the flock they got their nutrition on the grass until they could handle the whole corn. No birds were reported choking on it...I'm thinking that is one of those very rare, rare incidences in life.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

From what I've seen over the years, whole grain or cracked, a 4 wk old bird can handle it...I've even fed layer mash to new chicks before and that was when I fed dry.  They will pick out the particles they can eat the best....if you notice them leaving too large of grains behind, then you might consider it too large but I think you will find they can eat it.  I mixed the layer mash I am using now with chick starter for this latest batch and watched a tiny RIR pick up a big piece of corn, throw it on the ground several times and finally swallow it down.  The only grit they had for digesting that was from a clump of soil I had placed in their brooder. 

I think you all are maybe underestimating the power of a gizzard...since time began folks have fed poultry whole grains without problems.  You can find appropriate grit along any little stream or river bank you should happen to pass around your home, you don't have to buy grit.  If you free range, it's likely they are finding adequate grit on their own. 

Since the grains are ground in the gizzard, they are still getting ground/cracked grains in their diet, so getting more nutrition out of milled grains?  I'm not real sure on that one....in the end they are all ground.  Not too often have I seen whole grains come out the other end of a chicken...it happens, but I've only seen it once or twice in all the times I've had chickens.  I've seen a fair load of poop in all those years.

My granny fed whole corn to junior and adult birds and corn meal to chicks, but soon as they were out in the flock they got their nutrition on the grass until they could handle the whole corn.  No birds were reported choking on it...I'm thinking that is one of those very rare, rare incidences in life.   

The way the science was explained to me is the gizzard can only grind a bit of grain at a time, so they can get more into their system if the grains are pre ground.

This has been pretty well researched through the years.

I'm less concerned about particle size than nutrition. That's why I like fermented ground feed for the bulk of their diet (for nutrition), and think bigger or whole grain scratch is great (gives the gizzards a great workout and entertains the birds).

Not sure what to say about the pea ... that did seem flukey, but it's good to know its possible and preventable? Another thing I read is some studies show internal lacerations and deaths from another grain if fed whole ... might have been barley? a grain with really sharp and sturdy hulls ... which probably wouldn't be an issue unless it was a big part of the diet so birds couldn't avoid it. That one really surprised me! Worth considering.

 

[Beekissed]

The way the science was explained to me is the gizzard can only grind a bit of grain at a time, so they can get more into their system if the grains are pre ground.

This has been pretty well researched through the years.

I'm less concerned about particle size than nutrition. That's why I like fermented ground feed for the bulk of their diet (for nutrition), and think bigger or whole grain scratch is great (gives the gizzards a great workout and entertains the birds).

Not sure what to say about the pea ... that did seem flukey, but it's good to know its possible and preventable? Another thing I read is some studies show internal lacerations and deaths from another grain if fed whole ... might have been barley? a grain with really sharp and sturdy hulls ... which probably wouldn't be an issue unless it was a big part of the diet so birds couldn't avoid it. That one really surprised me! Worth considering.

I understand....they are possibly using more calories to grind the grain themselves, therefore losing the total benefit, than if the grains were already partially ground, thus not expending energy to grind them during digestion. Makes sense!

 

[debp]

What is BOSS?

 

[Beekissed]

Black oil sunflower seeds..acronym is BOSS.