FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[ReillyJ]

can you get a starter or grower with higher protein? That's what I would do.

What breed are your chickens, they sometimes take days off, only very high production breeds will lay every day with few and far between breaks.

They're one Wyandotte, one RIR or Red Sex Link, and two Easter Eggers. I got them as grown hens and have NO IDEA of their history, i think they're relatively young and the guy that lived w/the people that had them said they were very good layers and indeed they certainly were when i had them on commercial layer pellets and also supplemented with BOSS (which i still do), Manna Pro Harvest treat, and Meal Worms, i always give them that stuff also. Was getting 3-4 eggs regularly, daily, until the organic.

I think the organic Scratch and Peck does have an 18% layer feed, of course the one i just bought is 16%. I will be trying to FF no matter what i go with.

here's the Layer
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/wp-content/uploads/Naturally-Free-Layer-18-25lb1.jpg (18%) don't know if my feed store carries that one

i really don't know what to choose from
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product-category/organic-chicken-feed/

Or i could scratch organic and get like you said, a Grower commercial pellet, ferment it and supplement with calcium, hopefully they'll eat enough oyster shell... i WOULD be concerned they'd be getting enough CAL on Grower because honestly i don't see them eating much of the oyster shell.

They seemed to do great on standard commercial layer pellet (didn't ferment it then, i've just started and it'll be ready tomorrow)

What would you do? It really bothers me because of my holistic background but if the feed isn't the issue, then what is? What changed 3 weeks ago other than feed and free range?

THANKS!

 

[subhanalah]

They're one Wyandotte, one RIR or Red Sex Link, and two Easter Eggers. I got them as grown hens and have NO IDEA of their history, i think they're relatively young and the guy that lived w/the people that had them said they were very good layers and indeed they certainly were when i had them on commercial layer pellets and also supplemented with BOSS (which i still do), Manna Pro Harvest treat, and Meal Worms, i always give them that stuff also.  Was getting 3-4 eggs regularly, daily, until the organic. 

I think the organic Scratch and Peck does have an 18% layer feed, of course the one i just bought is 16%. I will be trying to FF no matter what i go with.

here's the Layer
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/wp-content/uploads/Naturally-Free-Layer-18-25lb1.jpg (18%) don't know if my feed store carries that one

i really don't know what to choose from
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product-category/organic-chicken-feed/

Or i could scratch organic and get like you said, a Grower commercial pellet, ferment it and supplement with calcium, hopefully they'll eat enough oyster shell... i WOULD be concerned they'd be getting enough CAL on Grower because honestly i don't see them eating much of the oyster shell.

They seemed to do great on standard commercial layer pellet (didn't ferment it then, i've just started and it'll be ready tomorrow)

What would you do? It really bothers me because of my holistic background but if the feed isn't the issue, then what is? What changed 3 weeks ago other than feed and free range?

THANKS!

I would definitely try to make the organic work! I'm pretty sure scratch n peck sells a starter formula.

You don't see them eating much calcium because they get it whether they want/need it or not in their feed.

Especially if they aren't laying heavily, I'm very hesitant to feed a layer feed.

The days are getting shorter and 2-3 eggs a day from 4 hens is still VERY good. They also start to slow down as they get past a year or two. Or perhaps they are coming into molt. There are so many things that can affect them. In the heat of summer, even too much BOSS can affect their shells.

Ferment what you have and see how it goes.
I noticed when I went back to regular dry, switching away from fermented, the eggs got smaller. Boo.

 

[ReillyJ]

I would definitely try to make the organic work! I'm pretty sure scratch n peck sells a starter formula.

You don't see them eating much calcium because they get it whether they want/need it or not in their feed.

Especially if they aren't laying heavily, I'm very hesitant to feed a layer feed.

The days are getting shorter and 2-3 eggs a day from 4 hens is still VERY good. They also start to slow down as they get past a year or two. Or perhaps they are coming into molt. There are so many things that can affect them. In the heat of summer, even too much BOSS can affect their shells.

Ferment what you have and see how it goes.
I noticed when I went back to regular dry, switching away from fermented, the eggs got smaller. Boo.

THANKS SO much for your help, it's so appreciated!

OKAY, even though i just got a bag of layer feed, i'll go get either the Starter or Grower, maybe you can help me choose:

This is the starter, looks like it has 20% protein:
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/naturally-free-starter/

OR

Broiler Grower 19% protein honestly they don't look that much different
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/soy-free-broiler/

and i can crush eggshell over the top---they LOVE eggshell although from what i understand they DO NOT get enough Cal from eggshell but need oyster shell so hopefully they'll know their needs and eat what they need!

I'll go easy on the BOSS, i give probably 1 Tablespoon or so per hen so really not that much, plus they get whatever fruit like grapes or canteloupe plus free range although i think people OVER estimate how much nutrition chickens get from free range

Also thank you for letting me know about egg production, etc. I just want them as healthy and happy as possible

So appreciate your help. i was hoping a lot of people would weigh in!

Susie

 

[subhanalah]

THANKS SO much for your help, it's so appreciated! 

OKAY, even though i just got a bag of layer feed, i'll go get either the Starter or Grower, maybe you can help me choose:

This is the starter, looks like it has 20% protein:
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/naturally-free-starter/  

OR

Broiler Grower 19% protein honestly they don't look that much different
http://www.scratchandpeck.com/product/soy-free-broiler/

and i can crush eggshell over the top---they LOVE eggshell although from what i understand they DO NOT get enough Cal from eggshell but need oyster shell so hopefully they'll know their needs and eat what they need!

I'll go easy on the BOSS, i give probably 1 Tablespoon or so per hen so really not that much, plus they get whatever fruit like grapes or canteloupe plus free range although i think people OVER estimate how much nutrition chickens get from free range

Also thank you for letting me know about egg production, etc. I just want them as healthy and happy as possible

So appreciate your help. i was hoping a lot of people would weigh in!

Susie

maybe you can post in the chicken behaviors and laying subforum? (This place is big, lol, lots of places to choose from!)

 

[subhanalah]

Also, @ReillyJ
Just use the bag you have now, stuff is too expensive to waste!

For the future, I'd go with the grower, it's cheaper lol.

 

[ReillyJ]

well their response to the first FF (using organic Scratch n Peck) was a HUGE MEH. Getting really tired of this.

Pulled out some of their commercial layer pellets and am going to try fermenting them, hopefully they'll eat an oatmeal/pb consistency in feed, they sure didn't like the FF organic

Just going to keep wetting the organic feed to bind the fines and see what happens along with the FF pellets, dunno still why egg production is down oh well. This is getting not fun

 

[subhanalah]

Give them some time to figure out that you aren't trying to poison them with the fermented feed. Chickens have a survival mechanism that they are weary of new foods.

 

[ReillyJ]

Give them some time to figure out that you aren't trying to poison them with the fermented feed. Chickens have a survival mechanism that they are weary of new foods.

Sorry, i know i must sound so petulant, it's frustrating because i tend to over think and over do things, especially since egg production has dropped which MAY be entirely normal (i have never had chickens so i'm in a huge learning curve) or it may be due to change in food and Scratch n Peck just doesn't "do" it for them, i'll never know unless i switch something up. I'm still going to ferment the pellets and see and offer them both.

Right now their plate of ferment (the organic) is sitting out there, is it ok to leave it out there all day in 75 degree temps? This has me running back and forth, LOL.

Their ferment bucket of organic is still sittting out (this is day 4) i don't know how long it'll take me to go through it now that they act like they aren't interested, do i just keep it out?

Also i am thinking of TRYING another ferment with the organic but this time grinding the grains in with the fines so it ALL turns into a mash like the pellets do. Other than that, don't know what to do except put them back on pelleted food for a couple weeks to see if egg production changes or just keep them on organic and wet it and just accept what's going on

Again thanks for listening. Wish others would weigh in (not that you haven't been extremely helpful!

 

[subhanalah]

Another possibility could be an intestinal parasite load or external parasites. That can drop egg production, but with the days getting shorter and the hens getting older, if you're getting eggs everyday (and they aren't eating any of them) then you're good to go.

If they weren't getting what they need, they'd be breaking their eggs and eating them to get what they need.

Do you have a special call you do for treats or special stuff? If so, make the call and peck your finger into the food to draw their attention. Eventually one will be brave enough to try it and once they get a taste of it, and realize you're not trying to kill them, they'll gobble it up.

It's fine to leave it out, that is why fermented (a method of preserving food) feed is far superior to wetted mash. Food spoilage starts approximately four hours after constituted and not refrigerated.

 

[ReillyJ]

Okay, i'll keep trying with different food stuffs!

No egg eating, eggshells are nice and hard and yolks dark. They all seem to be a good weight although like i said i am completely ignorant of chickens and still trying to learn all i can, i just couldn't let them be left alone and starve next door while the place was being shut down so i took them in even though i didn't want them...my thing is with all my animals i throw myself fully into it and most preferably holistic.

They did eat some of the FF, just pecked at it though... i suppose they won't starve.... i will offer them fermented pellets though even though i am not keen on feeding soybean which is standard in most pellets.

Also i don't see any scratching going on (they dust bathe all day) but i've never wormed them, i need to research that but i don't know anything about it!

Thanks again