FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[redfordchick]

Actually, chickens eat a lot of things out there in nature that have been fermented and actually prefer some things fermented than fresh(pumpkins, apples, peaches, etc.)...fruits, vegggies, grains, even meats.  Fermenting feed is about as natural as feeding chickens on a formulated feed comprised primarily of grains, which out in nature comprises only a small part of their diet. 

I'm sure your farmer friend also feeds cultivated grain rations to his other livestock, with all the supplements added(how often, pray tell, will a cow find itself sipping molasses?)....which isn't very natural either as those same animals in the wild would normally consume grass, browse, fruits(mostly fermented), nuts, wild grains and even meats when they can find them or chew them.  I'm pretty much betting he also gives chemical dewormers and antibiotics to his animals as well, which are in no way natural.  Actually, containing them in fences is not natural either, as herbivores normally range over wide areas to find the foods they require for good health.  And I'm wondering if he feeds silage? 

Ask him about all that and see what he has to say.   

Actually, you are incorrect about my friend. She is completely Organic, her practices go beyond organic standards, and does not use chemical ANYTHING. So it really surprised me to hear her opinion on the fermented feed for chickens. Managing over 1500 animals, I think she knows a thing or 2 more then most of us. ;-) She knows more then me I'm sure. Maybe if she ever has time I'll ask her more about her stance.

 

[Beekissed]

Managing that many animals and managing them "naturally", she must have thousands of acres? Because feeding that many animals their natural diet would require a really big, very verdant space, I'm thinking.

I applaud her efforts to feed organically and use all natural methods, though...it's a rarity. It would be interesting to hear her speak about her methods and how she provides a more natural diet for her livestock.

I'm wondering if she eats fermented foods and does she find that to be natural?

I'm sorry if I sound a bit defensive today but I've grown so weary of defending this method of feeding from those who have never tried it or have never even studied it....I should by now have gotten to the point where I can just say, "Hey, if your friend says it's bad, it must be bad so you better not do it!" and just shrug it off. It just gets a little old, is all. It's a free world....take it or leave it, use it or not, it's all the same to me.

 

[redfordchick]

Managing that many animals and managing them "naturally", she must have thousands of acres?  Because feeding that many animals their natural diet would require a really big, very verdant space, I'm thinking. 

I applaud her efforts to feed organically and use all natural methods, though...it's a rarity.  It would be interesting to hear her speak about her methods and how she provides a more natural diet for her livestock. 

I'm wondering if she eats fermented foods and does she find that to be natural? 

She has a variety of animals and her standard are far beyond any I've ever encountered. She does have a good chunk of land and manages it wisely. For goodness sake, her pigs tore up their fence and had to be put in a building for part of the winter, she dug up chunks of the ground and took it to them because she is Pasture based. I would imagine her number of animals is mainly smaller ones, she does cattle and pigs but not a ton... She even keeps the cows 3 years instead of slaughtering as soon as she could. Wish I could afford to eat only meats from her, if I could I would. Its her entire life.

 

[redfordchick]

Managing that many animals and managing them "naturally", she must have thousands of acres?  Because feeding that many animals their natural diet would require a really big, very verdant space, I'm thinking. 

I applaud her efforts to feed organically and use all natural methods, though...it's a rarity.  It would be interesting to hear her speak about her methods and how she provides a more natural diet for her livestock. 

I'm wondering if she eats fermented foods and does she find that to be natural? 

I'm sorry if I sound a bit defensive today but I've grown so weary of defending this method of feeding from those who have never tried it or have never even studied it....I should by now have gotten to the point where I can just say, "Hey, if your friend says it's bad, it must be bad so you better not do it!" and just shrug it off.  It just gets a little old, is all.  It's a free world....take it or leave it, use it or not, it's all the same to me. 

You are being a bit defensive. There's no need as I was just asking questions. I don't think asking what the final analysis of something is, is saying its wrong. I'm interested in it, which is why I like to ask questions and learn.

 

[tjo804]

Beekissed
I love this method of feeding my chickens are much healthier and shinier they are excited to see me a feed time and none of them seem to have digestive problems anymore!

I take your word and I even spread it around to all who say they are experiencing health problems with their flocks.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR WISDOM!
My ladies would thank you too but they don't type.

 

[glib]

I've been feeding fermented starter since I got my chicks a week ago, it took a few days to get bubbly and now it seems to be pretty active! They go crazy for it. Hard for me to tell if it is saving me money because I started this way so have no consumption rate of dry feed to compare to, but they really like it and seem to be growing like weeds- that's good enough for me. However, this is all interesting to me... I wonder if anyone has actually had the fermented feed analyzed. One bag of feed I have is really basic, the local feed store lied to me and said it was starter but it's grower, nothing added... So I went and bought Nutrena unmedicated starter, and started fermenting that too, makes me wonder what happens to the probiotics when fermented. I've seen some cool recipes of things to add to your feed, but ultimately that gets really expensive and you're messing with the overall analysis of the feed. Then, a friend of mine who is a Farmer said fermenting chicken feed is NOT natural... then I was super confused again. Seems like we kind of wing it and thankfully the animals are pretty forgiving and tolerant of our meddling. I'm trying to take a minimalist, naturalist approach... I like the concept of fermenting I just don't know if it's appropriate for every feed out there. I bake sourdough bread and brew Kombucha, and lactoferment some stuff too. I like making special mixes up as it's fun and makes you feel more involved, just alot of factors to consider.

Feeding them grains and, as BK says, keeping the animals in high density conditions (equivalent ranges of tens of square feet) is not natural either. Naturally, they have square mile territories and they eat meat and fruits. They eat small amounts of seeds, none if given ample choice. There are thousands of years and hundreds of ancestral communities in human history (humans being animals with similar dietetic requirements) that show fermentation is the way to minimize grains toxicity.

What we advocate is a low temperature fermentation in the bucket, say for a week, followed by a 100F fermentation in the gut for one day, to fully assimilate these unnatural foods. You, or your friend, advocate only the latter fermentation(let her know that fermentation is in fact natural and has happened for millions of years), without considering that the foodstuff is unnatural and the plant itself makes the seeds undigestible so as to protect its spawn from herbivory. Further, there are lots of studies showing that all nutrient classes are absorbed better.

 

[Beekissed]

You are being a bit defensive. There's no need as I was just asking questions. I don't think asking what the final analysis of something is, is saying its wrong. I'm interested in it, which is why I like to ask questions and learn.

I'm sorry....you are right. I am being defensive. Sometimes I've spent a week trying to put down fear mongering about this method and build a thin skin in the process, as it just frightens people and then they miss the good benefits of it. I shouldn't be taking that out on you and I apologize most sincerely.

It truly is a method I've enjoyed and many others like me, so it needs little defending by now and I don't know what gets into me sometimes....I guess I just can't stand so many folks who won't try something new and different or even take the time to learn about it before pronouncing it as "not natural" or "dangerous because it will grow mold".

Please forgive me as my passion overrules my good judgement and even more often, my tongue.

 

[redfordchick]

Sheesh, I really don't get why me asking a few questions is taken as me saying fermenting feed isn't good. Did anyone read that I am feeding fermented feed to my chicks? I am really curious about how the fermentation process affects any probiotics in the feed. Its fascinating! Don't you guys think?! My little Chickie's are doing great and so far we've had no pasty butt issues! I think people are getting defensive for no reason. Let's All be friends ok?! lol

 

[redfordchick]

I'm sorry....you are right.  I am being defensive.  Sometimes I've spent a week trying to put down fear mongering about this method and build a thin skin in the process, as it just frightens people and then they miss the good benefits of it.  I shouldn't be taking that out on you and I apologize most sincerely. 

It truly is a method I've enjoyed and many others like me, so it needs little defending by now and I don't know what gets into me sometimes....I guess I just can't stand so many folks who won't try something new and different or even take the time to learn about it before pronouncing it as "not natural" or "dangerous because it will grow mold". 

Please forgive me as my passion overrules my good judgement and even more often, my tongue. 

Its all good... We all have passions. I am very interested in health and topics like this.

 

[Beekissed]

Feeding them grains and, as BK says, keeping the animals in high density conditions (equivalent ranges of tens of square feet) is not natural either. Naturally, they have square mile territories and they eat meat and fruits. They eat small amounts of seeds, none if given ample choice. There are thousands of years and hundreds of ancestral communities in human history (humans being animals with similar dietetic requirements) that show fermentation is the way to minimize grains toxicity.

What we advocate is a low temperature fermentation in the bucket, say for a week, followed by a 100F fermentation in the gut for one day, to fully assimilate these unnatural foods. You, or your friend, advocate only the latter fermentation(let her know that fermentation is in fact natural and has happened for millions of years), without considering that the foodstuff is unnatural and the plant itself makes the seeds undigestible so as to protect its spawn from herbivory. Further, there are lots of studies showing that all nutrient classes are absorbed better.

I agree about the fermentation....it's definitely going on inside each and every chicken....the cecum is just a fermentation chamber for indigestible cellulose. The grass seeds they consume will be fermented, one way or another.