FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

Once maybe...but to keep returning to the thread to question the same thing over and over is beating a dead horse. And this horse is well and truly dead...the benefits of feeding in this method has been proven over and over right out in the backyard by many people. Educational discussion aside, it seem to be an attempt to discredit a method when it's spoken and questioned over and over and over and over and over.

To me, it seems that Chris may be working for a feed company whose main interest in FF is that it causes folks to feed less feed than they normally would and this affects their bottom line. If they can sow seeds of doubt here and there, try to discredit the method, they may make some progress in attempts to keep people from saving money on feeding.

I have no problems with anyone adding educational discourse to a thread but the attempts to discredit it to further gain is another thing altogether. The numerous attempts to do so can only speak of an agenda,not curiosity or a need to understand.....and an agenda has no place here.

It's a free country and folks are free to post all they want here, but it's clear that it's went beyond trying to educate into badgering.

 

[Jensownzoo]

Also if someone is using tap water that contains choline in it (city or shocked well) then your most likely only soaking your grain and or feed not fermenting it.

I haven't found that to be the case. I use tap water for the brooder chicks (well water for the pullets--different location) and have seen no difference in the vigorousness of the fermentation. It is counter-intuitive though.

As to the other, I think we are talking about the same thing and are in agreement. We just have different ways to thinking through it to reach the same conclusion.

 

[csaylorchickens]

Are used tap water to ferment my feed. I don't use fermented feed all the time every once in awhile I'll put it back out for a week or so. But what I do is I use apple cider vinegar with the mother in it, as well as a quarter teaspoon of probiotics for chickens. I find that using the probiotic powder kick-starts the fermenting process and you get the good bacteria to grow. You can tell it's for meant it because it has that sourdough Apple smell to it and it fluffs up

 

[csaylorchickens]

I had only one hand in particular who kept having problems with coccidiosis despite multiple treatments. The only thing that keeps her stomach in good order is the fermented feed

 

[triplepurpose]

i kinda think bee has a point. its one thing to be curious about HOW FF works, but theres enough clear evidence that it supplies at least as good--and Id say better--nutrition than non-ff.

I watched the over all health of my flock improve after i started FF, in particular the quality of the eggs improved dramatically, without changing the things we were feeding, just doing it all as a ferment instead (commercial feed, root crops, bananas, plus greens and scraps separately). anecdotal, sure, but to paraphrase Master Cho on KNF, all you have to do is try it to see for yourself...

just because you dont understand exactly how sonething works doesnt mean that it doesnt. For example, people just love to hate on homeopathy, despite it having helped millions of people and animals for centuries (including me), just because they cant seem to figure out how it works. i say who gives a @$&% that it apparently defies the laws of science, as long as it works for people?

 

[Chris09]

.

To me, it seems that Chris may be working for a feed company whose main interest in FF is that it causes folks to feed less feed than they normally would and this affects their bottom line.

LOL,
No I don't work for a feed company and never have either.

I look at it like this, IF your feed isn't performing like you would like it to then it isn't the feed for you and one should either find a better feed or mix your own.
I mix my own weed, it is a combination of a Mazuri feed, a grain mix that I posted earlier and a few other supplements and it works great for me and my fowl.

I simple stated IF your feed a set feed dry and your birds eat "X" amount and when you ferment that feed they eat less than the "X" amount that would mean that your increasing the amount of energy (ME) of that set feed which could be good as long as there getting enough nutrients.

 

[bbhorsefly]

I look at it like this, IF your feed isn't performing like you would like it to then it isn't the feed for you and one should either find a better feed or mix your own.
I mix my own weed, it is a combination of a Mazuri feed, a grain mix that I posted earlier and a few other supplements and it works great for me and my fowl.

Or, obviously, FERMENT it. Do you have some sort of pride issue? The concept that your grain mix could be improved by fermenting seems to have you balking. It seems odd to me you refusing to ferment it because "it works for me," because that denies your flock all benefits with no evidence. Sure, I had just finished a "no waste" homemade feeder and had quite happily been feeding my flock a pellet whenI stumbled on fermentation and that rendered all my current food efficiency upgrades moot, but I tried it. And, wow! What could be better than a great mix that provides for them nutritionally and that they eat just fine? Fermenting it and using less to get better results! They run for it an gobble it with gusto and eat less while showing all signs of better health. The smell factor alone is worth the buckets and water mixing. You just make it seem like you have a pride that's preventing you from actually having an experience informed opinion because you refuse to believe any improvement could be made on your current perfection.

 

[Chris09]

Quote: If you want the truth I don't see the point fermenting a already good feed/ feed mix and possibly depleting nutrition that they need OR increasing ones they don't need as much of. The other thing I don't see is fermenting feed that is going to be fed to a animal that already ferments its own feed.
Now when these people talk about how great fermented feed is for poultry and they talk about all the "studies" do they talk about the side affects, like that some poultry carry a genetic defect that gives there eggs a fishy smell when there feed is overly fermented?
i.e. when you ferment the feed than the chicken re-ferments the feed in there digestive track.
How about there are some depilation of some vitamins when feed/ foods are fermented?
i.e. vitamin B12 is reduced in some feed ingredients / foods like dairy products when it is fermented.

As for your chickens gobbling it up eating less and showing signs of better health.
Gobbling up there feed just means there hungry not that it is any better for them.
Eating less like I said before, just means that the feed is higher in caloric energy than before. Chickens eat to fill there caloric need, not to fill there stomach, because something is better tasting or better for them.
Showing signs of better health? What signs are you looking at, feathers, skin color, how about proper body weight or the birds production?

 

[lazy gardener]

Chris, I have to ask you: Since you have no interest in fermenting feed, why do you bother coming on this thread to argue your point over and over and over....?????????????????????????????????

 

[Jensownzoo]

If you want the truth I don't see the point fermenting a already good feed/ feed mix and possibly depleting nutrition that they need OR increasing ones they don't need as much of. The other thing I don't see is fermenting feed that is going to be fed to a animal that already ferments its own feed.
Now when these people talk about how great fermented feed is for poultry and they talk about all the "studies" do they talk about the side affects, like that some poultry carry a genetic defect that gives there eggs a fishy smell when there feed is overly fermented?
i.e. when you ferment the feed than the chicken re-ferments the feed in there digestive track.
How about there are some depilation of some vitamins when feed/ foods are fermented?
i.e. vitamin B12 is reduced in some feed ingredients / foods like dairy products when it is fermented. 

As for your chickens gobbling it up eating less and showing signs of better health.
Gobbling up there feed just means there hungry not that it is any better for them.
Eating less like I said before, just means that the feed is higher in caloric energy than before. Chickens eat to fill there caloric need, not to fill there stomach, because something is better tasting or better for them.
Showing signs of better health? What signs are you looking at, feathers, skin color, how about proper body weight or the birds production?

Why do you ferment your grain mix, Chris?

Edited for typos.