FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[circlehouse]

Of course they jump up there are get feed on their feet, that is what chickens do. Haven't seen anyone poop up there but I guess that is possible, as far as the adults. We will see what the chicks do, this is the first time I am using a stump with them. So far I like it. Seems to work for us and I like the fact of not having feed pans to deal with...

I like the idea of not having more bowls to clean! I'll experiment on my own and see what I like. Thanks!

 

[circlehouse]

With adults, you don't have to feed twice a day....I've only ever fed once a day, even when I fed dry feeds and just continued that with the FF.  For chicks I feed twice a day and I never give them dry feed with that...no choices insures a good feed clean up of the FF.  Keep the FF away from the heat source in the brooder or it will bake the surface of the FF and they can't access it but keep it near enough to that heat to keep it from getting too cold...stir it up a little if you see it forming a crust and they will eat it all the way gone. 

I wait until the first meal is all gone for a couple of hours before I give the next, evening meal.  If it's not gone by evening, I'm feeding too much.  If it's gone too early in the day, I'm feeding not enough.  That's how I work it all out.  Either way they have a clean trough when I go out to feed in the morning and only a little residue left in it for the evening meal. 

How much to dish out depends on how many chicks you have and you'll just need to play with your amounts until you see they can clean up the feed before their next meal.  It's just like knowing how much to give a little kid to eat...if they are leaving a lot behind, give less next time.  If they are consuming it all quickly and seem like they could use more, add more next time. 

That makes sense, thanks! I am using the mama heating pad method, so I'm thinking that drying it out from heat isn't going to be a problem.

 

[triplepurpose]

Nutritional aspects aside, one of the biggest advantages of FF for me is that it allows us to save money on feed expenses, but in a way that is convenient and simplifies the chore of feeding.

I can mix other things besides the purchased feed into the FF bucket to "stretch" the ration: i can use a diversity of ingredients cooked, raw, wet, dry, fresh, old, perishable, shelf-stable and they all just become part of the mash. Innoculation (through back-slop, ACV, EM, or some combination of these) keeps the mash from spoiling at ambient temps in a warm climate. So i can start feeding right away, and it will just get steadily sourer without spoiling until its used up (the only other alternative would be to dehydrate every ingredient fully and grind, but that required industrial, energy intensive inputs or lots of labor).

But with innoculated wet mash we can incorporate into the feed ration everything from old dry beans (cooked) to blended comfrey leaves (raw), to cassava (cooked, raw is toxic), to old weevily rice (raw, soaking softens it), to overripe bananas about to be compost (raw), to just about anything (i dont do animal proteins, or avocadoes, however, tthose would be fed separately). FF proceses allow us to combine all these things and more in a way that is palatable, workable and convenient, nutritional available, and doesnt spoil before its all eaten. As a result of this convenience factor (as well as the orher properties of FF) we use much less feed than we would otherwise, which means we can produce eggs and chickens of equal or better quality for a lot less money with only slightly more work.

This is main reason i started experimenting with similar processes in the first place, and why i cover this in my workshops on backyard chickenry (and why that segment is always so popular). Feed is the main expense of keeping chix, and by making chicken husbandry less expensive, i would hope to encourage more pepple to take it up, especially lower-income families and others who would most benefit from having more fresh homegrown foods and an increased sense of self-reliance. Which they arent going to do, except as a hobby, if it winds up costing more to produce their own eggs as it does to buy them (which it does here, unless you get very creative about supplementing purchased feed). And i would hope that the feedstores would love me too, because more people being able to keep chickens means customers!

 

[Beekissed]

I love all of that and also the other, equally beneficial side effects~the eggs and meat have a cleaner flavor with the sulfur smell and taste gone from the eggs and the gamey, barnyard flavor gone from the meat.

The poop no longer attract flies because it has very little odor...no flies means a cleaner homestead. No odor is another biggie....I hate bad smells, so walking into a coop that has no smell is a huge bonus to me.

The poop also breaks down easier in compost, so compost is made faster and more easily in my deep litter composting system. Being less sticky from undigested feed, it also seems to dissolve easily when it rains, so each rain just cleanses the grass of chicken poop and adds it directly to their pasture, which they then consume...it's a wonderful cycle.

One drawback is that the dogs no longer glean protein from eating their droppings, so instead of them hoovering up all the poop, they leave it where it has to wait for the next rain to be dispersed into the soil. That was the biggest indicator to me that the claims of feeding FF~the part where less feed is wasted out the back end of the bird~were indeed true....my dogs no longer have any interest in the chicken's poop where before they were eating them like snacks.

For all of these things and more, I love the FF.

 

[COChix]

With adults, you don't have to feed twice a day....I've only ever fed once a day, even when I fed dry feeds and just continued that with the FF.  For chicks I feed twice a day and I never give them dry feed with that...no choices insures a good feed clean up of the FF.  Keep the FF away from the heat source in the brooder or it will bake the surface of the FF and they can't access it but keep it near enough to that heat to keep it from getting too cold...stir it up a little if you see it forming a crust and they will eat it all the way gone. 

I wait until the first meal is all gone for a couple of hours before I give the next, evening meal.  If it's not gone by evening, I'm feeding too much.  If it's gone too early in the day, I'm feeding not enough.  That's how I work it all out.  Either way they have a clean trough when I go out to feed in the morning and only a little residue left in it for the evening meal. 

How much to dish out depends on how many chicks you have and you'll just need to play with your amounts until you see they can clean up the feed before their next meal.  It's just like knowing how much to give a little kid to eat...if they are leaving a lot behind, give less next time.  If they are consuming it all quickly and seem like they could use more, add more next time. 

Thanks for sharing that detailed info on your feeding regimen I know you have been doing this awhile. Always nice to have those with experience sharing with us newer chicken keepers.

 

[chickluvinfreak]

I fermented feed once after reading all the health benefits. But my hens flat out refused to eat it. It was dissapointing becaue it seemed like such a good idea. I buy probiotics and mix it in their layer feed for similar benefits but it's not as cheap as just fermenting. I don't understand how often it's supposed to be fed to them though. Doesn't it go bad alot quicker than dry feed and need thrown out? I guess it works best with chickens who aren't picky and eat it quickly.

 

[Beekissed]

I fermented feed once after reading all the health benefits. But my hens flat out refused to eat it. It was dissapointing becaue it seemed like such a good idea. I buy probiotics and mix it in their layer feed for similar benefits but it's not as cheap as just fermenting. I don't understand how often it's supposed to be fed to them though. Doesn't it go bad alot quicker than dry feed and need thrown out? I guess it works best with chickens who aren't picky and eat it quickly.

Supposed to be fed once a day...some folks feed it twice a day. It doesn't "go bad"...it's fermented, which kind preserves things rather than spoils them. It works best with chickens that have not been spoiled by too many choices, too many treats and too much continuous feed. In other words, it works on hungry chickens.

And the probiotics won't give much similar benefits at all.

 

[chickluvinfreak]

Thanks. I am getting chicks very soon should I start them now before they get picky? The feed won't get moldy sitting out? Thanks again

 

[Jensownzoo]

When you look at a feedstuff analysis they have the energy broke down into types.
For the most part (for poultry) you have Net Energy (NE), Digestible Energy (DE), Metabolizable Energy (ME), Net Energy Maintenance (NE[SUB]m[/SUB]). and Net Energy Growth (NE[SUB]g[/SUB]).

Net Energy (NE) refers to the amount of feed energy actually available for animal maintenance, growth and production. Conceptually, total NE is the portion of metabolizable energy (ME) remaining after the energy expended in body heat (or “heat increment of feeding”).

Net Energy Growth (NE[SUB]g[/SUB]) is an estimate of the energy in a feed used for body weight gain once maintenance is achieved.
Net Energy Maintenance  (NE[SUB]m[/SUB])  is an estimate of the energy in a feed used to keep an animal in energy equilibrium, neither gaining weight nor losing weight.
Metabolizable energy (ME) equals the gross feed energy minus the energy lost in the feces, urine and gaseous product of digestion.

Oh, okay. I was assigning more complexity to your statement than was warranted. I may have additional questions later...someone brought an hours-old kitten to me last night that's required tube feeding every 2 hours...I cannot brain right now...

 

[Jensownzoo]

Thanks. I am getting chicks very soon should I start them now before they get picky? The feed won't get moldy sitting out? Thanks again

Yes. I was able to get my newest batch of chicks eating the FF exclusively after two days.

No. The lactic acid produced by fermentation does tend to help prevent mold, but in addition it will continue to ferment as it sits in the feeder/dish as it is an active culture--the microbes involved in the fermentation tend to outcompete the undesirable ones like molds. A grayish film may develop on the outside of the feed...which is normal. Just stir it back into the mix.