FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[sarahsunshine]

What a great job! I love your little wash house! I bet your friends and family think you have lost the cheese off your cracker!

I get so excited when reading your plans...I had always wanted to build a straw bale cob structure. They are so much better than traditional housing and so much more open to artistic design in the cob...the sky's the limit on features and interesting little things you can add for comfort, utility and beauty.

I agree...that kind of work doesn't feel like work because it's half dreams and half fulfillment of dreams, so the dream half spurs you on and makes it seem more like fun and creativity than hard work. And it's the kind of hard work that leaves you satisfied at the end of the day...not a bit like most jobs. That's homesteading and I can't think of any better kind of life for people, for their kids and for the animals involved.

Here's a pic of our summer shower when we were homesteading..and this wasn't until several years after we started and was seen as a total luxury to use at the end of a sweaty work day! You can see the bench with the "sink" and the well that had running water if you cared to pump for it. The holding tank at the top of the shower had to be filled bucket by bucket climbed up a ladder..but, Oh, so worth it!!!




And our first cellar, made of logs...and that is me at 10 yrs of age..with my Dad in the background working on the structure.



On keeping chickens quiet...not sure about that..but how much noise could just two chickens make? Are your neighbors really THAT noise sensitive? No barking dogs in the neighborhood or anything?

Wonderful!!! What a luxury shower! We bought a 2.5 gallon hand pumped weed sprayer and will use that on occasion for a shower - but the bowl works just as well, particularly for hair.

I would love to have a hand-pumped well. Do't know of anyone who has them anymore, but I grew up with one in the summers. We will need to find one before we dig our well (if we do!)

Where was your home stead when you were 10yo?

Cheese off my cracker?!? Ah, if it comes from me, they aren't too surprised! Some of the people I am friends with are right up my alley, but those at work... not so much. But then, they just shake their heads because they also know that I've had 4 home births, drink fermented kefir drinks, take permaculture courses, grow my own vegetables in the city, etc... and they wouldn't dream of that!

 

[RoseMarie1]

You are going to have the time of your lives living off grid and away from the usual worldly setup. You'll have to do a thread of your own and post pics along the way of the befores and afters on the building and developing the land. What kind of house will you build? I've always wanted to do a straw bale/cob house and even a chicken coop of the same materials.

OH I second that Bee that will be soooo interesting to read and see! LOVE all this sort of stuff!!!

 

[sarahsunshine]

If you want see https://www.facebook.com/WillowWildeEscape where I try to keep relatively up to date on our progress.

 

[RoseMarie1]

Same here...veggies will ferment all on their own laying out on the ground, so I just toss and let the birds figure it out. I have all the FF I need in that bucket!

This could also help a person determine what stock they wish to keep out of all the sick and non sick birds. I've brought sick birds into my flock~I never, ever quarantine or use "biosecurity" which is a joke when having backyard flocks~ but rather depend on the good immune systems of my flock to bear up under the introduction of possible pathogens. And it's sort of like providing a natural culling...any birds that get the illness are culled. I wouldn't want them in my flock anyhoo...any new birds that don't clear up their symptoms within a week or so under my husbandry methods are culled as birds whose immune systems cannot recover under good care.

I don't even start thinking of meds to "help" them...that's a slippery slope when it comes to natural husbandry and can spoil the whole system and goals for your flock. Having the assurances that your flock can resist whatever comes into the flock under your husbandry methods is key and the whole goal, otherwise you are flinching every time a bird flies by.

I would give them a week or so of good FF, clean water, deep litter and sunshine on clean soils. Any bird not showing any signs of improvement with that..even a little improvement...would be culled. The bird with her head in the corner I would give 3 days to show signs of perking up...then cull. That's a lot of money to pay for sick stock...even a lot to pay for healthy stock in my area and I've never paid more than $8 per bird...but it's a cheap price for learning a valuable lesson.

I would call the man and explain that the flock is more than suffering from a cold virus and let him offer to buy them back...if he doesn't offer, I wouldn't push it and I'd keep them but remember this~any honest man would not only apologize profusely but would insist on buying them back. No honest man sells sick livestock. I got the same excuses once when I bought a few birds~Oh, they are missing feathers because of the rooster~and just like you, I felt too sorry for the birds to walk away. Then I kept them for a week or so and killed them all. Lost only $35 in the process but learned soooooooo much about learning to say "no" and also opening my mouth as to WHY I was saying NO.

I gave a dropper full to a 2 mo. old bird with no ill effects. The recommended dose~not sure who figured that out but you can bet it wasn't a vet~is 1.5 cc per bird, so there is a lot of leeway there when using a regular medicine dropper..they only hold about 1 cc, if that.

Remember about the NS mix...don't mix it too thick. I think it was the lard in mine that made it so darn sticky and thick, so next time I make it I will not be making it thicker but more runny and oily than greasy in nature. The greasy would stay on other maladies better but the scale mites really needed that thinner viscosity to move up under the scales instead of just sealing off the spaces between the scales.

It's on the Road Less Traveled thread but you know me...I don't really measure things.

I just heated various balms and oils in a double boiler(lard, bag balm and mineral oil...will cut out the lard next time!), added the pine tar (don't remember how much...just enough to get it to smell as strongly as NS does), and then mixed in the sulfur powder to the consistency that I wanted. The mix can take A LOT of sulfur powder, so just keep adding until you get the consistency you want. I'd recommend to avoid the thicker mix like I made and stick with a little more soupy and runny. The thicker is easier to work with but it doesn't mean a ding diddly how easy it is to work with if it no longer does the job as well.

All the ingredients were super cheap and came to a mere fraction of the original cost of the NS, plus you can make a bigger quantity than they sell. It's a win/win and if I still had other livestock, I'd keep a big batch at all times sealed up in fruit jars.

See I'm STILL UGHHHHHH of the mind set keep working with them until you get them healed no matter how long it takes! ARG WHEN am I going to learn? I can see your way because you'd have much higher immunity in your birds because they haven't had antibiotics and all this other mess of meds. Then you cull after a week if not getting any better which would make for much stronger birds in the batch. Yep it sure sounds like her birds has some respiratory problems for sure. They say that Vet-RX stuff is really good for that and it's all natural they say. IF I am remembering right it has camphor in it. They put a few drops in a bottle and spray when they're on the roost and it's like a vaporizer for us so they can breath better. Also they put a few drops in there water and its like greasy so it floats on top and when they stick their beaks in they get it on their beaks. Anyway not sure if you'd suggest using something like that to get them better or not. ?? When I was trying to learn about chickens when I first got started I was reading all the stuff on here and they were talking about this stuff. They sell it at the Tractor Supply and maybe at some feed stores but not sure on that. Anyway I bought some to have in my medicine cabinet just to be prepared awhile back as well as the castor oil to oh AND vaseline.
Anyway just when I think, Oh I'm thinking like Bee now, I see uh oh, no I'm not either! Got to get this all down in my head!!! I NEED to make me up a batch of the NuStock to and put it in fruit jars to. I have a bunch of those little 1/2 pint ones I don't use for anything I could use for this.
OHHHHHH also I let out the jailbird today (the feather puller) and he's not pulling any feathers! Been sitting out there for awhile just watching and not one time has he even offered so MAYBE just maybe he's forgotten all about it now since he's been in jail for a few days. We'll see anyway. Still watching him.

 

[Beekissed]

See I'm STILL UGHHHHHH of the mind set keep working with them until you get them healed no matter how long it takes! ARG WHEN am I going to learn? I can see your way because you'd have much higher immunity in your birds because they haven't had antibiotics and all this other mess of meds. Then you cull after a week if not getting any better which would make for much stronger birds in the batch. Yep it sure sounds like her birds has some respiratory problems for sure. They say that Vet-RX stuff is really good for that and it's all natural they say. IF I am remembering right it has camphor in it. They put a few drops in a bottle and spray when they're on the roost and it's like a vaporizer for us so they can breath better. Also they put a few drops in there water and its like greasy so it floats on top and when they stick their beaks in they get it on their beaks. Anyway not sure if you'd suggest using something like that to get them better or not. ?? When I was trying to learn about chickens when I first got started I was reading all the stuff on here and they were talking about this stuff. They sell it at the Tractor Supply and maybe at some feed stores but not sure on that. Anyway I bought some to have in my medicine cabinet just to be prepared awhile back as well as the castor oil to oh AND vaseline.
Anyway just when I think, Oh I'm thinking like Bee now, I see uh oh, no I'm not either! Got to get this all down in my head!!! I NEED to make me up a batch of the NuStock to and put it in fruit jars to. I have a bunch of those little 1/2 pint ones I don't use for anything I could use for this.
OHHHHHH also I let out the jailbird today (the feather puller) and he's not pulling any feathers! Been sitting out there for awhile just watching and not one time has he even offered so MAYBE just maybe he's forgotten all about it now since he's been in jail for a few days. We'll see anyway. Still watching him.

That VetRx looks like something I wouldn't mind using, for sure. Good ingredients, each one.

Now, I don't want you to think I've had to kill birds left and right my whole chickening life, because it's not true...I've never had any illness in my flocks that had to be culled except that one group of birds that didn't recover or show improvement in a week or so. Then, when I got my GB back, I watched the birds and gave them time to improve but I could pretty much tell which ones weren't going to improve a whole lot within 2 wks time...and so they were eventually culled.

I want birds that are naturally healthy and can withstand common illnesses with little, or no, intervention so that I'm not constantly on a forum somewhere saying "HELP!" and so that my birds don't suffer before they get help. This way any bird that would suffer is usually taken out in a yearly cull.

For instance...I have two old hens that are 6 yrs old right now and have been the most wonderful birds anyone could ever want. They are still hardy and healthy to look upon...if one isn't looking real close. But they both have thickened ankles and pendulous abdomens that look like they have chronic cellulitis...pink, sagging, edematous looking,dry and flaky skin on the abdomen. To a nurse, that tells me I'm probably looking at cardiac insufficiency due to old age and a hypotonicity of the pelvic floor muscles....in other words, if these ol' gals were humans they'd have congestive heart failure and they'd be incontinent of bowel and bladder at times. And they do...their vents won't fully close now and their butts are always messy from leaking fluids and feces.

Not so bad...but do I want them to go to the next step? Heart attack, or respiratory distress from ascites? Do I want them to get eggbound because their oviduct has prolapsed downward and prevents good egg delivery? All these things are to be considered in a yearly cull of the flock. Looking ahead so as to head off any potential illnesses. Do I know for a fact they won't go another laying season without problems? I don't. Do I want to take that gamble to prove myself wrong or right? No, I don't.

No point in it when there are other, younger birds coming up in the ranks that need a space in the coop to live....there are always other chickens, dogs, cats, and horses that will be born and need a home and such is the cycle of life on this planet. Everything dies and, if you can make their life a really good one and that death a really quick one, then you've done all you possibly can with what God gave you. But, it takes selflessness and diligence, learning and growing, and fortitude to do the right thing when that time comes.

Everyone loves the fun of chickens and farming but there is a hard side to it all that comes with it that no one seems to want to accept...and so they treat, and they treat and they keep a medicine box full of meds and they fight and claw until that animal's last breath. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose and they feel heroic in the trying of it....but what about the animal? They don't mark days and times on calendars and measure their days like humans and so one good day is better than 10 bad days because, to them, each day is the only day.

That's all my method is....keeping all the good days good, looking down the road to try and prevent bad days, and ending their lives before the bad day can happen, if I can.

 

[sarahsunshine]

That is a refreshing attitude around here. Thank you Bee. It;s rarely verbalized - the puttnig into perspective of how to figure out that time when the good days for the animal are so far outnumbered by the bad that it is no longer worth living. It's even tougher to be the one to decide that for another animal.

Aside - I'm going to have a hard time with my dog (she promissed me she would never get old but lied). I had to make that decision for her when she was 7 months old - had bad and expensive accident. Most people would have culled her then and there, but I didn't. And now she is 11.5 and has been the most wonderful dog one could imagine. Most people who meet her agree. Even last weekend when a rooster got out (we were butchering), and she desperately wanted to pounce, instead she flushed the roo back toward me so I could catch him. I've never had to train her much, she just knows what I want her to do. Did the same when a friend's pigs escaped a few years ago. And now she's getting deaf, and blind, and I wish I had more time just to pat her and love her. Such a good old girl. I fear this will be her last year, but hope for many more.

 

[thylton]

I use dog food bowls! hard plastic style. I know some people use eaves/gutters. Interested in other ideas...

I use a wallpaper tray and it works great. See in the bottom right corner of the pic.

Thanks guys. I just started fermented feed and have been using an old galvanized trough, but definitely need something better. Think I will make an anchored covered trough with guards to keep the feet out.
Thanks again
thylton

 

[Beekissed]

That is a refreshing attitude around here. Thank you Bee. It;s rarely verbalized - the puttnig into perspective of how to figure out that time when the good days for the animal are so far outnumbered by the bad that it is no longer worth living. It's even tougher to be the one to decide that for another animal.

Aside - I'm going to have a hard time with my dog (she promissed me she would never get old but lied). I had to make that decision for her when she was 7 months old - had bad and expensive accident. Most people would have culled her then and there, but I didn't. And now she is 11.5 and has been the most wonderful dog one could imagine. Most people who meet her agree. Even last weekend when a rooster got out (we were butchering), and she desperately wanted to pounce, instead she flushed the roo back toward me so I could catch him. I've never had to train her much, she just knows what I want her to do. Did the same when a friend's pigs escaped a few years ago. And now she's getting deaf, and blind, and I wish I had more time just to pat her and love her. Such a good old girl. I fear this will be her last year, but hope for many more.

I've had to make that decision twice and the last time the dog walked into the vet on her own with a jaunty step and the vet says, "This is the dog you want me to put down?". But...she was just happy to be going in the car. Soon as he had her on the table he put his hand on one of her legs and said, "Oh." That one word says it all. Years of trying to keep her comfy without shots or pills that will cause side effects but finally...oh, but finally...heart break, she comes.

A person holds on as long as they can and keeps them as good as they can, and even if they are the greatest dog...no, BECAUSE they are the greatest dog...there comes a time to put your broken heart in your back pocket and carry your good dog out to your truck and find a place to plant her in the sweet Earth.

I feel for your time of grief that is coming..it's the end of an era and I don't think you ever really find another dog like a great dog. You find other dogs that are great in their own way, but you never really ever find that perfect combination of greatness that you found in that one really great dog.

My first dog was like that and none could compare. Then God sent me Lucy and she was great...not quite the dog that Jimmy was, but had her own greatness that was apart and equally as wonderful..the sweetest dog on Earth and a true gift from the Lord. Now I have Jake and he writes his own story with his own level of greatness, though he will never achieve the greatness of Jimmy, nor Lucy.

We love them all differently for all their different and wonderful greatness and one simply cannot really be compared to another, can they? But..the next one will have their own qualities that may make them "great" in our lives and so there is some level of excitement to see the next great dog when it comes into your life. I've had three so far.

 

[wlhtx]

Oh Bee, you brought tears to my eyes.

Sarahsunshine, I share your dread for what the future (possibly - or more likely probably - near) holds for a beloved four-legged friend. Our Liberty (a boxer) is also 11.5 years old and nearing her own end. She has some nasty arthritis in a leg she broke as a 6 week old puppy, and we really feared this last winter would be her last. But thankfully it was fairly mild and she fought through. This summer has also been mild. Hot, but not the typical, unbearable for months on end kind of hot that Texas usually sees. I think The Lord is being especially kind to our good old girl in sending us such weather as we've enjoyed this year. We have watched her enjoy a spring in her step that hasn't been very springy for the past couple of years... Now that the summer is winding down, I am very concerned for what the cold temperatures to come will bring for her.

Dogs are not children. They aren't. But she was the first baby of any sort that my husband and I raised together and losing her will feel like a knife to the heart...

 

[sarahsunshine]

Oh Bee, you brought tears to my eyes.

Sarahsunshine, I share your dread for what the future (possibly - or more likely probably - near) holds for a beloved four-legged friend. Our Liberty (a boxer) is also 11.5 years old and nearing her own end. She has some nasty arthritis in a leg she broke as a 6 week old puppy, and we really feared this last winter would be her last. But thankfully it was fairly mild and she fought through. This summer has also been mild. Hot, but not the typical, unbearable for months on end kind of hot that Texas usually sees. I think The Lord is being especially kind to our good old girl in sending us such weather as we've enjoyed this year. We have watched her enjoy a spring in her step that hasn't been very springy for the past couple of years... Now that the summer is winding down, I am very concerned for what the cold temperatures to come will bring for her.

Dogs are not children. They aren't. But she was the first baby of any sort that my husband and I raised together and losing her will feel like a knife to the heart...

Sorry, I'm not usually emotional like this and figure we all have out time to go. For some reason I'm unusually emotional today (and 2 unrelated surprises smacked me in the face today too - joy!). Sorry to sideswipe this thread.

I also lost a child (in an accident - he was 14mo old), and having our Indy was one of the things that really helped get through that. I think of our homestead that we are putting together as her retirement property - to give her the life and retirement she deserves in her old age. And truth be told, even if I could not be there all summer as I wished, she had had a wonderful summer with DH, the kids, and our new rescued 1yo pup. He's handsome and gentle (yes, DH, but I meant the pup!), and fun, but he's not the loyal, clever, beautiful, funny, intuitive girl that Indy is. I never expected him to. He has his own personality. In fact, I forgot how much energy she used to have until we got him this April!

Here is Indy - something said to being old and deaf - the hammers and saws don't bother her anymore! She's sleeping in the middle of the wash house building site while we are putting the siding up! You can't tell, but she used to have a lot more red in her colouring. She's been getting quite grey!



I hope Liberty also sees a few good years. Cold is definitely terrible on the joints. I finally removed the screws and plates from Indy's leg because at -15C she couldn't use it anymore and became a tripod dog (plenty live fine lives that way). That helped for several years, but now she's old and tired.


And now... back to Fermented Feed!

Bee - you say that you can ferment any food? Do you think it would work for high protein and meat content dog food? I'm thinking of fermenting Indy's dog food.