FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

Posted on a different thread but wanted to get the opinions on here about it:

"When you ferment grains, you get two different products depending on how long you ferment it. The first product will be lactic acid from our lovely probiotic organisms such as lactobacillus and bacillus subtilis etc. This makes some bubbles and a sour, yougurty smell. If you leave this too long, the lactic acid producing bacteria will essentially produce so much lactic acid that they raise the pH too high for them to live. It is at this point that you create the perfect conditions for alcohol producing yeast to start flourishing and producing alcohol.

The lactic acid stage is a nice fermented feed. The alcohol stage is a nice sourdough starter. I make my own sourdough starter from fresh, organic wheat, barley or rye. Grains grown out in the open will be naturally bathed in windborne wild yeast. I grind the grains in my Kitchenaid grain mill attachment and I put them in a container with some pineapple juice which actually has the perfect pH to hasten the killing off of lactobacillus and to promote the growth of yeast which will let my bread rise. If you have gluten issues or if you just want to stop paying so much for yeast that was made with who knows what kind of grains and processes, this is the way to go.

But I digress. My point is that you CAN make drunk chickens but only if you ferment for too long."

I think this was addressed in the other FF thread and someone measured the alcohol content of the feeds and found them barely measurable. From what I gather, the acetobacter bacilli consumes the alcohol sugars as they are produced by the LABs...which is why people who make wine, whiskey, etc. have to do so in a way that they will not draw vinegar yeast from the air and ruin the alcohol. I think making alcohol is a little more complex than just putting feed in a bucket with some water and waiting...much like apple cider..which turns to hard cider and then very quickly to vinegar.

And penicillin, and camembert, and brie, and all mushrooms.

Yes! Good point! Funny, isn't it...folks come to these threads to tear down the method of feeding, sort of like we are trying to sell people snake oil or something. We are not selling anything. We are experimenting with a method of feeding and detailing what happens when we use it. People can take that and use the information or just walk on by, but if mystifies me as to why they come here to say it's not a good thing when they have never tried it.

I'm not a microbiologist nor do I claim to be...I just found some information, used it on some feed and have found it to be a good thing and shared the information. After that, it's all in the hands of people who read about it. Take it or leave it, folks. It's all the same to me!

Hey guys! I have already noticed on day 3 that my flock is eating less! And that they are more active and they mob me for their rations now more than ever. They never eat a whole lot at once; I feed them in the morning and by afternoon all is gone. I lessened it because the second day they didn't finish by evening. This time they did. I am very happy with how they are doing and want to thank all of you again. My first set of chicks should be in tonight and I will be starting them on fermented from day one. I will take pictures when I receive them and post; that way we can look back as they grow and see the benefits!

Good feedback! We love before and after pics and stories of how it's done well for flocks!

I have a question about something you said up/acv

I know ACV is Apple Cider Vinegar but what is UP?

Could I use Molasses?

What age can I start for my layer chicks?

Caroline

Added sugar is not needed as the grains and feeds we feed already contain molasses and natural sugars. You don't even need the ACV in these temps...it will ferment well without it. The only reason I used ACV in the beginning of this process was I was fermenting in cooler ambient temps and wanted to speed up the process a little. In these hot temps you will see it sped up even more than you like already!

 

[RoseMarie1]

I think this was addressed in the other FF thread and someone measured the alcohol content of the feeds and found them barely measurable. From what I gather, the acetobacter bacilli consumes the alcohol sugars as they are produced by the LABs...which is why people who make wine, whiskey, etc. have to do so in a way that they will not draw vinegar yeast from the air and ruin the alcohol. I think making alcohol is a little more complex than just putting feed in a bucket with some water and waiting...much like apple cider..which turns to hard cider and then very quickly to vinegar.

Yes! Good point! Funny, isn't it...folks come to these threads to tear down the method of feeding, sort of like we are trying to sell people snake oil or something. We are not selling anything. We are experimenting with a method of feeding and detailing what happens when we use it. People can take that and use the information or just walk on by, but if mystifies me as to why they come here to say it's not a good thing when they have never tried it.

I'm not a microbiologist nor do I claim to be...I just found some information, used it on some feed and have found it to be a good thing and shared the information. After that, it's all in the hands of people who read about it. Take it or leave it, folks. It's all the same to me!


Good feedback! We love before and after pics and stories of how it's done well for flocks!

Added sugar is not needed as the grains and feeds we feed already contain molasses and natural sugars. You don't even need the ACV in these temps...it will ferment well without it. The only reason I used ACV in the beginning of this process was I was fermenting in cooler ambient temps and wanted to speed up the process a little. In these hot temps you will see it sped up even more than you like already!

yes it is isn't it Bee on people trying to prove the method wrong when not even trying it. OR trying it and doing it their way instead of the proven way that has worked for many many folks on here. Yep no skin off our backs if they decide this is not for them and they don't like saving on their food bill.

But man I REALLY like saving on mine! PLUS when you get chicks at 2 months old that looks like a grown chicken, that should say something on it's own right there. Plus the shine and sheen of those gorgeous feathers and them staying well and well you get the point.

 

[amyandkids]

drives me crazy, like I always tell my kids don't say you don't like it unless you try it first!!!!!! Everyone has there own opinions, we are giving info on our personal experiences! But anyway I will be posting more pictures of my babies tomorrow, they are getting so big and there feathers are so pretty.i will also post pics of my other 2 month old babies tomorrow that I got from meyers that have been eating f.f. since the day I got them

!

 

[Pasturepets]

Yes! Good point! Funny, isn't it...folks come to these threads to tear down the method of feeding, sort of like we are trying to sell people snake oil or something. We are not selling anything. We are experimenting with a method of feeding and detailing what happens when we use it. People can take that and use the information or just walk on by, but if mystifies me as to why they come here to say it's not a good thing when they have never tried it.

I'm not a microbiologist nor do I claim to be...I just found some information, used it on some feed and have found it to be a good thing and shared the information. After that, it's all in the hands of people who read about it. Take it or leave it, folks. It's all the same to me!

yes it is isn't it Bee on people trying to prove the method wrong when not even trying it. OR trying it and doing it their way instead of the proven way that has worked for many many folks on here. Yep no skin off our backs if they decide this is not for them and they don't like saving on their food bill.

But man I REALLY like saving on mine! PLUS when you get chicks at 2 months old that looks like a grown chicken, that should say something on it's own right there. Plus the shine and sheen of those gorgeous feathers and them staying well and well you get the point.

If these are pointed towards me, I would like to mention that I never said whether the method was good, bad or indifferent.

However, it you are trying to teach other people how to do something, it would be a bonus to use the correct terminology. Bacteria is not mold, yeast is someplace between bacteria and mold. If you are trying to lacto-ferment, mold and/or yeast shouldn't be there; if you are going for alcohol or acetic acid as an end result then yeast is good, but actual MOLD on the food is still iffy.

I DO plan on trying LACTO-fermentation when I get my chickens, but am ambiguous on whether to go for 'pickling' (acetic acid fermentation) Acetic acid seems to be todays 'cure-all' (at least in the horse world).

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
I'm sorry the correct terminology was not used and the information not up to your standards. Again, I don't know too much about microbiology and I'm not really teaching anything, just trying to keep up with the flood of questions that come in. Good luck with getting LABs without pulling vinegar yeasts into your mix as well..from what I understand, it's sort of inevitable...but then, I could be wrong and please feel free to correct me with some good explanations as to how you will keep acetobacter bacilli out of your mix so that you have exclusively LABs.

Would you like to teach us all the correct terminology and the whole process of the fermentation of grains here? We would be delighted to learn from someone who seems to know so very much about it.

 

[Trefoil]

[/URL]a few shots of my feed set up under the carport

This is how I do it( including the old fortex pail), I get the strainers at the dollar store and they work great.

Have you ever figured up the total protein of all that mix? Sounds like you have several sources of medium to high protein going there. Don't want to sound like an alarmist but I'm getting feedback from several people this year who have loaded up on proteins and are having some organ failure and death in their flocks from it. There is a reason layer ration is normally 16% protein...because that is all that is needed for high production layers and is just about all they can metabolize safely on a continuous basis.

Feeding show bird feeds and calf manna are for temporary spans of time( we never used it more than 2 wks for show animals) to condition an animal for show but not necessary to maintain good health and can actually burn out their kidneys, livers and hearts after awhile. If you want long lives on those birds, you might want to cut proteins down to a more normal ration..and even lower if they are not currently producing at a high level.

Thanks for the reminder, I keep sliding towards more and more protein and you just helped me "catch" myself again.

 

[RoseMarie1]

If these are pointed towards me, I would like to mention that I never said whether the method was good, bad or indifferent.

However, it you are trying to teach other people how to do something, it would be a bonus to use the correct terminology. Bacteria is not mold, yeast is someplace between bacteria and mold. If you are trying to lacto-ferment, mold and/or yeast shouldn't be there; if you are going for alcohol or acetic acid as an end result then yeast is good, but actual MOLD on the food is still iffy.

I DO plan on trying LACTO-fermentation when I get my chickens, but am ambiguous on whether to go for 'pickling' (acetic acid fermentation) Acetic acid seems to be todays 'cure-all' (at least in the horse world).

I wasn't pointing it at anyone. Just making a statement about people trying to prove something wrong when they haven't tried it themselves. I don't know IF you have or have not tried fermented foods for your chicks or chickens.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

You can get ACV at feed stores.  I think it's supposed to be for horses originally?
But it's better than what you get from the grocery store (processed human acv like to cook with)

Not true. The grocery stores ( including WalMart) sell both pasteurized and raw ACV. The raw ACV "with the mother"is what I buy at Wally World.

 

[dutchbunny83]

I've never seen raw ACV at the store before (though we do most our shopping at the commissary).
I'll have to keep an eye out for it, thanks

 

[Beekissed]

I wasn't pointing it at anyone. Just making a statement about people trying to prove something wrong when they haven't tried it themselves. I don't know IF you have or have not tried fermented foods for your chicks or chickens.

PP doesn't have chickens yet. But seems to be a wealth of knowledge on fermentation so we could probably sit back and learn from someone so knowledgeable. I'm waiting for the teaching to begin!

Always up for good learning!