FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[TeaChick]

You don't have to stir every day and what you saw wasn't the bad kind of mold..that was your scoby. The good guys. Don't toss that out next time!

I've went several days without stirring mine while I was out of town...no worries. It does not require stirring to keep going, though it's a good idea anyway just to keep the top moistened.


Here's an easier way for you...dump all your feed, whole grains and the other, in a big bucket and add water, stir and wait. You don't have to keep it under water but it's a good idea to keep it all moistened, so if it's a tad too dry after it absorbed the first fluid, just add a little more and keep stirring until it is easy to stir or mix. It will continue to absorb fluid as time goes along but no worries...just keep it at the consistency you prefer, be it thicker or soupy...it doesn't matter to the fermentation. Soupy just requires more fussiness of trying to strain off the soup.

Here's a vid or two that shows what it will look like and what texture I feed mine at....

It may help you to read from the beginning of the thread so that you won't have to guess at what is happening, what feeds you can ferment and how, etc. There is a wealth of info in these threads that can help you navigate this method.

Thanks for the vids. And I will go back and read the entire thread. I'm all for doing my homework!!! I want to learn as much as I can so I can take good care of these birds; the count on me (even if they do act like I'm gonna eat them every time I walk out my door lol).
Thanks again!

 

[Audio51]

You don't have to stir every day and what you saw wasn't the bad kind of mold..that was your scoby. The good guys. Don't toss that out next time!

I've went several days without stirring mine while I was out of town...no worries. It does not require stirring to keep going, though it's a good idea anyway just to keep the top moistened.


Here's an easier way for you...dump all your feed, whole grains and the other, in a big bucket and add water, stir and wait. You don't have to keep it under water but it's a good idea to keep it all moistened, so if it's a tad too dry after it absorbed the first fluid, just add a little more and keep stirring until it is easy to stir or mix. It will continue to absorb fluid as time goes along but no worries...just keep it at the consistency you prefer, be it thicker or soupy...it doesn't matter to the fermentation. Soupy just requires more fussiness of trying to strain off the soup.

Here's a vid or two that shows what it will look like and what texture I feed mine at....

It may help you to read from the beginning of the thread so that you won't have to guess at what is happening, what feeds you can ferment and how, etc. There is a wealth of info in these threads that can help you navigate this method.

Great videos, Beekissed!!! Thank you so much for making and posting them. I have been feeding mine wetter and only have a single bucket. I don't have very many chickens so the smalle buckets will work for me, I think., but need to get that second one.. Your layer feed looks like it has a lot more stuff in it though....more grains. What brand do you feed? Is it crumbles or "Mash"?

 

[kpgoldstar]

Somehow I guess I forgot to stir one day, resulted in 1" of gray mold. I tossed it out, but was wondering IF it would've been edible?...if not no harm, no foul.

You don't have to stir every day and what you saw wasn't the bad kind of mold..that was your scoby. The good guys. Don't toss that out next time!

I've went several days without stirring mine while I was out of town...no worries. It does not require stirring to keep going, though it's a good idea anyway just to keep the top moistened.


Hi Bee and advocate! This was what I was trying to determine when you said that you had the mold, how you could tell if it was mold and was it on the water or on the top of the feed? I figured it was probably the scoby and not actually mold but didn't want to make that assumption!

 

[kpgoldstar]

Great videos, Beekissed!!! Thank you so much for making and posting them. I have been feeding mine wetter and only have a single bucket. I don't have very many chickens so the smalle buckets will work for me, I think., but need to get that second one.. Your layer feed looks like it has a lot more stuff in it though....more grains. What brand do you feed? Is it crumbles or "Mash"?

Hi Audio, I still only use one bucket for my small flock too. It takes a few minutes in the morning to shake the excess water off through a sieve, but my consistency in the feeder is like just barely moistened oatmeal and I only use chick starter. Since my girls are still small I haven't ventured into any other grains or sunflower seeds yet. I have pics finally I can post!

 

[TeaChick]

Sorry about that. My computer got a bug up its butt or something. >:-(
Anyway, here's what I MEANT to say:

A video that came up in the grid after Day 2 of the fermented feed video, called "Chicken Feed Test for Laying Hens.mp4", and it was very informative too. Also expertly produced. lol

The whole thing seems to start with and/or revolve around ACV (which it took me a little while to figure out meant Apple Cider Vinegar; can't tell I have a toddler, can ya, lol) and then I saw whey mentioned.
Q: How much difference does the ACV/whey make? I just use water and whole dried corn; what am I missing by not adding ACV or whey?

I see ppl talking about the food/grain soaking up all the water (or most of it, w/e), but I put 1 PB jar corn and 1 PB jar of water, then I drain it.
I understand that reusing the same liquid from previous soaks can cause the sugar level in the ferment to become too high.
Q: Is there something I'm doing differently than what you're all talking about that this is not the case for you/what you're doing?

More questions to follow, but I wanted to get this edited since my computer up and posted it w/o my permission. lol

 

[Audio51]

Hi Audio, I still only use one bucket for my small flock too. It takes a few minutes in the morning to shake the excess water off through a sieve, but my consistency in the feeder is like just barely moistened oatmeal and I only use chick starter. Since my girls are still small I haven't ventured into any other grains or sunflower seeds yet. I have pics finally I can post!

I am using the chick starter too. The first batch I threw in some scratch grains, but forgot with subsequent batches. I made way too much the first couple of time so I am going to use it up before I start more. I have enough for about 3 more days. Is that too long to keep the previous batches?

 

[Beekissed]

Great videos, Beekissed!!! Thank you so much for making and posting them. I have been feeding mine wetter and only have a single bucket. I don't have very many chickens so the smalle buckets will work for me, I think., but need to get that second one.. Your layer feed looks like it has a lot more stuff in it though....more grains. What brand do you feed? Is it crumbles or "Mash"?

It's just mash and it doesn't have a brand...I get it at the local feed mill, ground fresh and it comes in a white, plastic bag with an ingredient slip on it and nothing more.

Smells good...like breakfast cereal! I mix some barley grain in it and in the fall I mix in some black oil sunflower seeds(BOSS) for a little fat content...not much, though, as a little goes a long way.

 

[TeaChick]

@ Beekissed:

Okay, I'll be honest, I couldn't read the entire thing (we are talking about 114 pages here). At any rate, I did have some questions, which my computer already posted for me.

But here's the thing:
I was feeding... well, dog food... to my original flock. Really, I was free ranging, and then I would throw in a PB jar (2#) of dog food in when I wasn't going to be able to let them out first thing in the morning or when I had to coop them for one reason or another. It wasn't supposed to BE their only food source, just something to tide them over until they could get at the grass and the bugs.
Anyway, long story short, I was having to coop them more and more, so they were eating dog food as their feed.

An issue I ran into was that the ones who were laying everyday (in a pile of blankets on the back porch and other not-in-the-laying-area-I-made-for-them places) stopped laying and I have some that I think never started. A chicken breeder friend of mine said I should increase their protein so they have enough protein to lay; she said soak deer corn in water for 2-3 days, the microbs eat some of the carbs, thereby increasing the percentage of protein in a relatively inexpensive food source. Does that make sense? She also said that reusing the fermenting liquid was alright once, but after that it would be building up sugars that would be bad for the chickens.

I now know that they stopped laying b/c I changed their entire lifestyle just as they came of age to lay, so I'm just making dry corn and fermented corn available to them and letting them free range.

I was thinking about buying them a bag of chicken feed after they're done with the deer corn, but now that I know that changing their diet can throw off their egg production, I'm not so sure. My reason for wanting to do it was that I don't think it's healthy for any omnivore to eat basically the same thing all the time. They're free ranging now, so I'm not worried about that anymore/for now; however, my DH is going to build them a pen, so their ability to regulate their own feed is going to change in a few weeks.

IDK. Help!

 

[niqueie]

Sorry about that.  My computer got a bug up its butt or something. >:-(
Anyway, here's what I MEANT to say:

A video that came up in the grid after Day 2 of the fermented feed video, called "Chicken Feed Test for Laying Hens.mp4", and it was very informative too.  Also expertly produced. lol

The whole thing seems to start with and/or revolve around ACV (which it took me a little while to figure out meant Apple Cider Vinegar; can't tell I have a toddler, can ya, lol) and then I saw whey mentioned.
Q: How much difference does the ACV/whey make?  I just use water and whole dried corn; what am I missing by not adding ACV or whey?

I see ppl talking about the food/grain soaking up all the water (or most of it, w/e), but I put 1 PB jar corn and 1 PB jar of water, then I drain it.
I understand that reusing the same liquid from previous soaks can cause the sugar level in the ferment to become too high.
Q: Is there something I'm doing differently than what you're all talking about that this is not the case for you/what you're doing?

More questions to follow, but I wanted to get this edited since my computer up and posted it w/o my permission. lol

The way most of us do it and the way it benefits the birds most is by fermenting all the food the birds eat. We put it all in the bucket dry ( layer crumble, starter mash, veggys, corn, sunflower seeds, food scraps, ect.). Then we add water and at the first time (small amt) apple cider vinegar with mother. Then wait for a day. Stir a few times over that first 24hours. It will start to ferment. You will see bubbles as the fermenting beneficial bacteria give off gas from their feeding on the sugars of the food. There is only benefit to reusing the same water from previous ferments. There is no excess sugars. The fermenting actually is changing the sugars,as that is what the bacteria is feeding off of. It isn't complicated once you've done it for a few days. It should smell like a yeast/sour smell. Mine smelled like that until I changed bags of feed. My new feed has fish meal in it and now my fermented feed smells terrible because of the fish. It is still really nutritious and the birds eat it as well as the other good smelling stuff. Hope this was helpful.
Some benefits are: gaining more nutrition out of the feed you are already feeding. The fermentation makes the food more nutrient absorbent by the birds digestion.
Less poop and stink because of the nutrients staying in the bird, not getting pooped out as much.
Less waste because if the birds knocking it on the ground while eating.
Many others too.

 

[Beekissed]

Sorry about that. My computer got a bug up its butt or something. >:-(
Anyway, here's what I MEANT to say:

A video that came up in the grid after Day 2 of the fermented feed video, called "Chicken Feed Test for Laying Hens.mp4", and it was very informative too. Also expertly produced. lol

The whole thing seems to start with and/or revolve around ACV (which it took me a little while to figure out meant Apple Cider Vinegar; can't tell I have a toddler, can ya, lol) and then I saw whey mentioned.
Q: How much difference does the ACV/whey make? I just use water and whole dried corn; what am I missing by not adding ACV or whey?

I see ppl talking about the food/grain soaking up all the water (or most of it, w/e), but I put 1 PB jar corn and 1 PB jar of water, then I drain it.
I understand that reusing the same liquid from previous soaks can cause the sugar level in the ferment to become too high.
Q: Is there something I'm doing differently than what you're all talking about that this is not the case for you/what you're doing?

More questions to follow, but I wanted to get this edited since my computer up and posted it w/o my permission. lol

I don't know where you are getting your information but I can sure take a guess....I'd give that information source a pass, if I were you. Stick to this thread or the one in the meat bird section if you want to know more accurate info on the FF.

You don't need the ACV at all. You don't need whey or yogurt or kefir or any such starter....the mix will pull yeasts from the air and they will feed on the sugars in the grains and populate your mix. In the process they will populate the whole mix with LABs and acetobacter bacillus(those found in mother vinegar) that feeds on the grains and the sugars produced by the fermentation of the grains.

There are two groups of yeasts that are drawn in...lactobacter(there are many different kinds but they all pretty much act the same and you can have several kinds living and thriving in the mix all at the same time and you'll never know which ones or how many are there unless you were to get your mix analyzed in a lab) and acetobacter. The lactobacter(LABs) will start the action of fermentation and their digestion of the sugar in the grains will yield a few byproducts...one of which is alcohol sugar. The acetobacter will feed on the alcohol sugar and thrive on that...meaning you are not feeding alcohol to your birds because the acetobacter are consuming it all. The byproduct of acetobacter metabolism is acetic acid, which is why the longer the ferment sits the more it smells like vinegar. It also means there isn't any "sugar level" to worry about..the acetobacter consumes it.

If in doubt about the whole fermentation process, I'd advise doing some serious reading on the subject from reliable sources...but blog sites are not going to be one of those sources.

It can be as simple as sourcing Wikipedia...has some good info and reliable links to sources with even more info.

There is no danger of "sugar buildup" or of not having the correct type of yeasts in your mix...if left open to the air to capture wild yeast spores, you will have all the appropriate yeasts/bacteria to keep a good fermentation going in your feeds. Even the commercial studies done on using FF are backslopping(inoculating new batches of feed with the feed/water from the previous batch) and I'm sure they would have discovered any harmful build up of supposed sugars in the feed mix from this practice.

That's the newest rumor from "out there" that I have heard.....

What will they think of next to try and complicate this oh, so simple process? Please avoid any information from sites that try to confuse and complicate the process...fermentation is as old as time and is not harmful or complicated to feed out to livestock. Truly.