FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere in this thread but after getting halfway through I haven't seen it answered yet and I'm not sure i'll make it through all of them....lol

So my question is i'm getting day olds in the morning and I have some feed bubbling on the counter.... So can i offer them FF from the start or should i give the starter dry for the first few days?
Also I started the FF with ACV can I still put that in my metal trough feeder without fear of leaching?

You can feed it from day one and you won' t need the dry at all. Keep in mind that often newly hatched chicks are living on their own yolks for the first three days so don't be too concerned if they aren't eating much during that time.

The top of the feed will get a crust on it if it sits for a bit so you'll have to stir it up again when that happens and the chicks will think you've created some new kind of treat and will start to gobble it again. Try to keep from putting it directly under the light as this crust can get a hard, baked quality.

Metal is not recommended due to the leaching, so if your feed is going to be sitting in the trough for any length of time each day, you might want to consider building a wooden or PVC trough. I used the metal rain guttering for my troughs and didn't have a problem but I feed once a day and it's gone in a matter of minutes, so no real chance of the acidity of the feed causing corrosion of the metal.

 

[gunnysmom611]

It's one of the small ones with the spinning bar in the middle from TSC, I am only getting eight chicks so I doubt I will fill it up and leave it sit, i'll most likely do multiple feedings.....in the future should I start a new batch of FF and leave out the ACV so I can feed it in the trough without worry? Thank you so much for the help I'm new to chickens and FF and I just want to give them the best from the start.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

It's one of the small ones with the spinning bar in the middle from TSC, I am only getting eight chicks so I doubt I will fill it up and leave it sit, i'll most likely do multiple feedings.....in the future should I start a new batch of FF and leave out the ACV so I can feed it in the trough without worry? Thank you so much for the help I'm new to chickens and FF and I just want to give them the best from the start.

A page or two back we had the discussion about this ... on what types of materials are "ideal" for FF feeders. A few of us shared opinions there, but there are always other options.

The metal feeders like the one you are describing are generally "galvanized." Check to see if it is, and if it is I would not put fermented feed in it. Zinc, the metal they use in the galvanization process, is toxic to poultry ... yes, they make galvanized waterers for poultry, and people have been using them for hundreds of years, but they do not work for acidic substances (like when people put ACV in their water, or for people like me who have acidic well water).

Fermented Feed is acidic, which will leach and corrode any metal with the possible exception of stainless steel. BK makes her metal gutter feeder work because she feeds her birds scant rations (they are thrifty birds who get great forage much of the time) and her birds eat their FF fast ... and also I don't think those painted metal gutters are galvanized.

Here is a link to a blog-type article on zinc and birds ... http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww14eiii.htm

ETA: Here is a different article that seems to be about the same as the first one I posted, but with better "credentials." http://www.birdclinic.net/avian1.htm

 

[beverly evans]

All animals need some iron, as with all metals, even those considered toxic.
For good growth and health, living things require varying amounts of "heavy" or "toxic" metals in the diet. iron, cobalt, copper, manganese, zinc, etc.. To determine the amount that is harmful is probably beyond the scope of a forum discussion.
Excessive levels can be harmful. Other heavy metals such as mercury and lead are toxic and their accumulation, over time, can cause serious illness. Certain elements that are normally toxic are, for certain organisms or under certain conditions, beneficial. Since the topic is iron, I'll forgo discussion of vanadium, tungsten and cadmium.

As the saying goes, "all things in moderation". I avoid rusty water or rusty feed containers.

Thanks! They eat it so fast they don't get much, but we know the acid draws more into the food. Just curious if anybody knew for sure if that little bit was harmful.

 

[myfivehens]

Thanks to everyone that answered me on where to keep the feed! Mine doesn't smell bad either the strainer was just attracting some fruit flies so I just decided to keep the strainer out in the garage next to the dry feed. Easy fix

Another question. We have a broody hen and I'm planning on separating her from the flock and letting her hatch some eggs. Should I continue to feed her the fermented layer feed until she has babies or should I start fermenting some chick starter for her now? I read somewhere that she doesn't need the added calcium in the layer feed, is this true? How much fermented feed should I expect a brooding hen to consume? TIA!

 

[beverly evans]

Quote: Thanks LJ, I will ck. both of these out straight away! The pots I use are very old cast iron. They only let off iron rust. : )

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Birds are pretty sensitive to the stuff they use to do the galvanizing to begin with. Here, specifically, we have very acidic water that eats through metal pipes very fast, so buying metal waterers to use here was just a super stupid decision.

I have to admit that I don't like most commercial feeders or waterers.

I have a lot of 1, 2, and 3 gallon plastic waterers, including a couple electric ones for winter. Most have some flaw, especially the heated ones. I got 4 of the one gallon ones free for buying so much feed.
Once the weather warms to the point that it stays above 30, I clean them all and put them away till winter switching to all automatic water using drinker cups and horizontal nipples.

Thanks to everyone that answered me on where to keep the feed! Mine doesn't smell bad either the strainer was just attracting some fruit flies so I just decided to keep the strainer out in the garage next to the dry feed. Easy fix

Another question. We have a broody hen and I'm planning on separating her from the flock and letting her hatch some eggs. Should I continue to feed her the fermented layer feed until she has babies or should I start fermenting some chick starter for her now? I read somewhere that she doesn't need the added calcium in the layer feed, is this true? How much fermented feed should I expect a brooding hen to consume? TIA!

Yeah, when the fruit flies become a problem, everything goes outside. Once they get going in the kitchen sink, they usually persist till winter.

Others will probably disagree but here's my advice and why.
She won't lay any more eggs for about 3 months so I would take her off the layer feed now. Another thing I would do is switch to dry for the duration till the chicks hatch and you can start the fermented starter then. She'll only come off the nest once a day at most for the next 3 weeks. You don't know when that will be and she won't eat very much so the fermented may go stale. Also, since she won't be eating much, I don't want to limit her more by predetermining how much she'll eat.
I have 2 broody hens now. When I moved them to their own quarters, I put the bulk dry feeders back in those units and automatic drinker cups. I won't have to feed, water or bother them for the 3 weeks of incubation. I'll put a chick waterer in when they hatch till they can use the auto water system.
Here's one of the units with a black leghorn that hatched a batch of penedesencas for me.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I have a lot of 1, 2, and 3 gallon plastic waterers, including a couple electric ones for winter. Most have some flaw, especially the heated ones. I got 4 of the one gallon ones free for buying so much feed.
Once the weather warms to the point that it stays above 30, I clean them all and put them away till winter switching to all automatic water using drinker cups and horizontal nipples.

Yeah, when the fruit flies become a problem, everything goes outside. Once they get going in the kitchen sink, they usually persist till winter.

Others will probably disagree but here's my advice and why.
She won't lay any more eggs for about 3 months so I would take her off the layer feed now. Another thing I would do is switch to dry for the duration till the chicks hatch and you can start the fermented starter then. She'll only come off the nest once a day at most for the next 3 weeks. You don't know when that will be and she won't eat very much so the fermented may go stale. Also, since she won't be eating much, I don't want to limit her more by predetermining how much she'll eat.
I have 2 broody hens now. When I moved them to their own quarters, I put the bulk dry feeders back in those units and automatic drinker cups. I won't have to feed, water or bother them for the 3 weeks of incubation. I'll put a chick waterer in when they hatch till they can use the auto water system.

We do put some FF in with the broodies, and what they don't eat one day gets dumped on the coop floor for the others to eat the next day at feeding time ... the others LOVE this routine.

Because we have birds of both genders and all ages sharing the same feed, we feed everyone an all purpose poultry feed and offer the calcium on the side. The calcium container is near the door to the run, and the hens seem to like to stop there on their way back into the coop in the afternoons. That makes sense when you consider the egg-making cycle. But I do still wonder if the hens are getting all the minerals they need, so I've asked my custom feed mill about it and am awaiting a reply as I type. We are in the middle of designing a locally-sourced & milled "custom" feed for our birds.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

We do put some FF in with the broodies, and what they don't eat one day gets dumped on the coop floor for the others to eat the next day at feeding time ... the others LOVE this routine.

Because we have birds of both genders and all ages sharing the same feed, we feed everyone an all purpose poultry feed and offer the calcium on the side. The calcium container is near the door to the run, and the hens seem to like to stop there on their way back into the coop in the afternoons. That makes sense when you consider the egg-making cycle. But I do still wonder if the hens are getting all the minerals they need, so I've asked my custom feed mill about it and am awaiting a reply as I type. We are in the middle of designing a locally-sourced & milled "custom" feed for our birds.

That's not a bad idea for dealing with the broody FF.

Like you, I have a rooster with each flock so my base feed is a 16% grower with containers of oyster shell. One container is near the feeder and one is next to the nest boxes.
As you've observed, I read that they usually pick up the oyster shell in the afternoon as the egg enters the shell gland. The larger particle stays in the upper digestive tract longer than that in layer feed, thereby making contact with calcium absorption sites in the small intestine at night while they're on the roost.
I wouldn't worry about other minerals because all those besides calcium are fairly consistent in quantity regardless of type of feed.

 

[kpgoldstar]

My favorite bantam frizzled Cochin died suddenly overnight. We had just been enjoying her antics last night while watching her on the grass. We held her and just had a great time with her. I saw her poo was very well formed with the usual white cap on it. She was scratching in the grass and acting normal. She kind of laid down at the end of the night in the grass but it was roosting time so we took her back to the coop and she was found dead the next morning very mysteriously. She was just on the ground where she usually roosts. No weazing, nothing out of the ordinary.

Oh, bummer! How sad

. I am truly sorry.