FINAL NECROPSY RPT GO TO LAST POST --NIGHTMARE with CANKER

[2greenboyz]

I used to have geese - just love them, wish I could have them again but don't want to p/o the neighbors. But vets don't have a clue. Really turned some heads when I walked in to a vet with a goose or two tho - funny.

 

[chic-a-deee]

Dawg you're probably right I'll just keep on keepin on, see what happens. If she continues to go downhill, I'll have to cull - hate to see her suffer. (and hate culling - can't do it myself I'm a wimp so it costs me $30 each time. Dang). The nystatin, should I need it, realized I can use that girly stuff for vaginal infections. I asked about it at Costco when I went in there today and that's what they showed me. I have some on hand already. Used to be an Rx, but no more.

And chic-a-deee, thanks for your well wishes. I take no offense at all. I live in the middle of the city (near Disneyland actually). Vets around here do not treat birds they do dogs and cats, and the one I know who does is - well - a jerk what can I say. There's another good clinic about 10 miles away they know what they are doing but they charge a fortune. I know b/c I spent over $800 on chickens! - Rescued Chickens! They won't give advice over the phone - wish they would but they would just say come on in we have an appt tomorrow. At least $60 the second you step thru the door. I'm not working anymore. Best vet I ever got was one that was just "filling in" one day - went for a cockatiel and he actually was a vet at the Long Beach Aquarium where they have Lories! Wish I could get him but he doesn't work at that clinic. No- I'm on my own. Unfortunately my little darlings have to suffer b/c of my bungles, but "live and learn" - . Been there done that with vets. Can't afford them. Thanks for your caring anyway I do appreciate it.

Geez thats no good. I guess the vets where u are, are catering for the wealthy that spoil their pets rotten??? Sorry to hear that. The vet I have for my dog is wonderful. He'll charge about $60 first visit...but if there is a continued treatment...that requires weekly visits for instance, he only charges for the medicine which could be $12 for antibiotics....fantastic. Im on my own too, with 3 kids, so I know where ur coming from. And I think chickens are wonderful to have...I love how they all go up into the pen when the sun is going down LOL...so cute. Im learning too, I think I interfered too much with our broody hen....trying to position her in preparation 4 hatching....& she pecked & smashed an egg. It had a chick inside about 18days old...

I wasnt very happy I can tell you so now I LEAVE her alone. Tho...a book said to feed & water the hen every 24hrs cos they can starve themselves to death....I was shocked to find this out. My little mamma has lost heaps of weight & her comb & waddle are very very pale...So I will have to make sure she gets out & eats...I wouldnt have thought they would be silly enuf to starve themselves to death!!!!
And yes...I do care for ur girls....they are just gorgeous arent they...hope they get better soon

 

[2greenboyz]

Chic-a-deee, you got it - vets are for the wealthy around here. And, they only do dogs and cats to boot.

UPDATE on my hen, Jet. Sorry to report I had to put her down yesterday. As I said, she was on FishZole, then when she turned for worse, switched to Ronidazole. I began to worry as she didn't seem to improve much, although some days were better than others. I thought she might be getting a yeast infection (fungus) so I did the recommended - gave her miconazole, which I managed to find in the form of a suppository with not a bunch of added ingredients. I cut one in thirds for a one-a-day. Wednesday, she had taken a turn for the worse. Where her tail had been up throughout this ordeal, now it was pointing straight down. And her comb, while not looking great before, now was purple on the tips. Deep purple. I syringed her some parrot baby food to get some nutrition in her. Later, was giving her eyedroppers of water to keep her hydrated. BTW, I saw no change in the yellow growths in her throat at least not enough to conclude the meds were working.

I had ordered a new drug - a herbal drug that is acclaimed for its ability to cure canker. It came that day. I had a feeling I would get it and it would be too late, and now it seems to have fulfilled the prophecy or whatever. Dang. Well, I went ahead and mixed it up and switched everyone to that. For her, I added a little sugar to it and syringed it she seemed to tolerate it. By the end of the day she didn't want anymore so I boxed her in a cat carrier and put her away thinking she'll pass overnight. She didn't. Next day same condition, except on about the 3rd effort to hydrate her, her crop had not emptied b/c she drooled on me, was very swollen, and the feathers over her crop were gone. She stood up now most of the time - stood up sleeping.

So those were her latest symptoms - someone said that State of California UC Davis Agriculture will do free necropsy if you bring them the expired patient. They also said they will provide a shipping number to ship for free. What I learned is they no longer do the free shipping thing they used to do that a few years ago when Newcastle was rampant. No more. But they will euthanize and do pathology, necropsy if you bring in the bird. So that's what I did. It was an hour drive through bad traffic each way, but I felt at this stage she was suffering and the situation had become hopeless. At the same time, I have indoor birds I wanted to get a definitive on her, and if I turned her in locally to the pound to be put down, I wouldn't get that analysis.

I will let ya'll know when I hear anything from the lab. I hafta say, she was one of my favs, my little sidekick who followed me everywhere and jumped up on a pen (about 3 feet high) to watch for any sign of me - only one to ever do that. I'll miss her. Sorry about the length (and the mushiness)

 

[Gallo del Cielo]

Oh crud.

I'm sorry to hear that it ended this way. You get major credit though for trying everything that you could. I'm sending good thoughts your way hoping this is the last time you ever have to deal with canker.

 

[abbey808]

Chic-a-deee, you got it - vets are for the wealthy around here. And, they only do dogs and cats to boot.

UPDATE on my hen, Jet. Sorry to report I had to put her down yesterday. As I said, she was on FishZole, then when she turned for worse, switched to Ronidazole. I began to worry as she didn't seem to improve much, although some days were better than others. I thought she might be getting a yeast infection (fungus) so I did the recommended - gave her miconazole, which I managed to find in the form of a suppository with not a bunch of added ingredients. I cut one in thirds for a one-a-day. Wednesday, she had taken a turn for the worse. Where her tail had been up throughout this ordeal, now it was pointing straight down. And her comb, while not looking great before, now was purple on the tips. Deep purple. I syringed her some parrot baby food to get some nutrition in her. Later, was giving her eyedroppers of water to keep her hydrated. BTW, I saw no change in the yellow growths in her throat at least not enough to conclude the meds were working.

I had ordered a new drug - a herbal drug that is acclaimed for its ability to cure canker. It came that day. I had a feeling I would get it and it would be too late, and now it seems to have fulfilled the prophecy or whatever. Dang. Well, I went ahead and mixed it up and switched everyone to that. For her, I added a little sugar to it and syringed it she seemed to tolerate it. By the end of the day she didn't want anymore so I boxed her in a cat carrier and put her away thinking she'll pass overnight. She didn't. Next day same condition, except on about the 3rd effort to hydrate her, her crop had not emptied b/c she drooled on me, was very swollen, and the feathers over her crop were gone. She stood up now most of the time - stood up sleeping.

So those were her latest symptoms - someone said that State of California UC Davis Agriculture will do free necropsy if you bring them the expired patient. They also said they will provide a shipping number to ship for free. What I learned is they no longer do the free shipping thing they used to do that a few years ago when Newcastle was rampant. No more. But they will euthanize and do pathology, necropsy if you bring in the bird. So that's what I did. It was an hour drive through bad traffic each way, but I felt at this stage she was suffering and the situation had become hopeless. At the same time, I have indoor birds I wanted to get a definitive on her, and if I turned her in locally to the pound to be put down, I wouldn't get that analysis.

I will let ya'll know when I hear anything from the lab. I hafta say, she was one of my favs, my little sidekick who followed me everywhere and jumped up on a pen (about 3 feet high) to watch for any sign of me - only one to ever do that. I'll miss her. Sorry about the length (and the mushiness)

I am truly sorry that you lost your little hen. You did everything you could to save her... much more than most would. It's never an easy decision to make, but if you thought she was suffering at that point you did the right thing in euthanizing her. Hope your other chickens are well and don't have to go through the same thing. Rest in peace Jet. Sending hugs and prayers your way...

 

[2greenboyz]

Hi All - This is the latest update on my hen, Jet, with suspected trich (canker) infection. I am still waiting - it's been about a month - for the final report from the lab. As mentioned in my post, I put her down at the Calif Dept of Food and Agriculture office where they performed a necropsy. They informed me a few days later that it was NOT trich, they saw no indication of trich organisms. What they found was an epithelial cancer in the throat extending into the sinus. So that is what I saw when I looked down her throat and saw the yellow mass in her oral cavity and back of throat.

That's why all my treatments had no effect, although sometimes she did seem to improve.

I have included below my previous threads on this, and the lab report to date. I have been in contact with the lab to try to get the rest of the report but they keep telling me it has not been released yet. So I check in with them once a week just to bug them so they don't forget me. If and when I ever get the rest of the report I will post an update to this. Your comments / questions are welcome should you have anything to add.

I just wanted everyone who followed me through this and helped me through the ordeal to know how it all ended up. And a sincere thank you for your support.


https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/662023/canker-timing-of-meds-for-crop#post_8945636

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...cessive-thirst-update-it-was-canker-not-worms

NECROPSY PRELIMINARY REPORT

Jet Name Chicken Female 3.00 Years
Three year old hen with 2 month history of difficulty to eat and yellow masses on esophagus
Preliminary gross findings:
1. Oral cavity, necro-ulcerative stomatitis, severe, focally extensive.2. Esophagus, mildly thickened mucosa, segmentally
diffuse, mild
3. Crop, moderately thickened mucosa with white plaques, diffuse, moderate
4. Liver, diffusely enlarged and tan/yellow
5. Kidney, diffusely white, bilateral
6. Uterus/vagina, congested granular mucosa, segmental
7. No parasite eggs detected in feces
Cause (s): Undetermined at this stage (full diagnostic workup underway)
Pending tests:
- Histology
- Bacteriology
- Avian Influenza qRT-PCR
L a b o r a t o r y F i n d i n g s / D i a g n o s i s
5-11-12: Necropsy revealed severe ulcerative stomatitis and variable thickening of the mucosa of the esophagus and crop .
Abnormalities in liver and kidneys may or may not be related to the oral lesions. At this stage no specific diagnosis can
be made; I will rely on histology and other ancillary tests to further characterized my findings. New results will be
forwarded as they become available.
C a s e S u m m a r y
Chicken came from Blacksmiths corner in LA-exposed to wild pigeons. I bought at 6 months old at which time seemed to
drink excessively. Last two months had increasing symptoms: interest in food -can't eat, difficult swallowing, drooling, no
mucous no respiratory sounds, no smell, on crop massage, chicken burps, shaking head violently, inspection of mouth
shows yellow masses extending into esophagus. Treated with wazine, valbezen, metronidazole and ronidazole.
Disease suspected: Trichamonas
C l i n i c a l H i s t o r y
Chicken came from Blacksmiths corner in LA-exposed to wild pigeons. I bought at 6 months old at which time seemed to
drink excessively. Last two months had increasing symptoms: interest in food -can't eat, difficult swallowing, drooling, no
mucous no respiratory sounds, no smell, on crop massage, chicken burps, shaking head violently, inspection of mouth
shows yellow masses extending into esophagus. Treated with wazine, valbezen, metronidazole and ronidazole.
Disease suspected: Trichamonas
C l i n i c a l H i s t o r y
May 11, 2012
Duration of illness: Unknown
G r o s s O b s e r v a t i o n s
Necropsy of a black sex-link hen began at 3:05 pm on May 10, 2012.
The hen was received alive, was depressed and reluctant to move. The bird was humanely euthanatized and bled prior to
necropsy.
In the oral cavity, there was focally extensive deep ulceration of the mucosa of the right half of the oral cavity bordering the
choana. This focus of ulceration was covered by thick yellow plaque-like material. Segmentally, the mucosa of the
esophagus was mildly thickened and pale, and there was a solitary, raised, soft translucent nodule at the level of the
glottis. The crop was distended with greenish semisolid ingesta; the mucosa had numerous, slightly elevated, multifocal,
discrete to coalescent white plaques with a finely coarse surface. The liver was moderately swollen, tan/yellow and firm.
Both kidneys were diffusely white. The ovary was active with numerous developing ova; the mucosa of the uterus /vagina
was diffusely thickened, dark-red, with granular surface and contained a non-calcified egg shell and yolk material.
No other significant abnormalities were observed.
B a c t e r i o l o g y
Animal/Source Specimen Specimen Type
BACTERIAL AEROBIC CULTURE
Results
Jet S1203972-01.0 Liver Tissue 002 Pending
Jet S1203972-01.0 Cecal Tissue 004 Pending
Jet S1203972-01.0 Oral Cavity Swab 005 Pending
Jet S1203972-01.0 Crop Tissue 006 Pending
Animal/Source Specimen Specimen Type
FUNGAL CULTURE AND ID
Results
Jet S1203972-01.0 Crop Tissue 006 Pending
Animal/Source Specimen Specimen Type
Salmonella PCR and Confirmation Culture
Results
Jet S1203972-01.0 Liver Tissue 002 Pending
Jet S1203972-01.0 Cecal Tissue 004 Pending
P a r a s i t o l o g y
Animal/Source Specimen Specimen Type
FECAL EXAM - FLOTATION
Results
Jet S1203972-01.0 Feces 003 No parasite eggs detected

 

[Gallo del Cielo]

Well that is certainly surprising! It seems so improbable that the symptoms would present themselves so much like trichomoniasis and yet not be. Even the necropsy description of the oral cavity, esophagus and the yellowish liver are suggestive. I guess I would want to know how they ruled out trichomonads if the results of the swab and tissue cultures are still pending. Good for you to keep bugging them for the results and thanks for following up with us. We're all learning something here from poor Jet.

 

[2greenboyz]

Gallo del Cielo - when I talked to the vet, he said he went in there expecting to see trich but he could find none. I think he took swabs from the crop to look for the buggers under a scope. He thought that would be the answer, but nope. He said this type of cancer in chickens is so rare that it became the subject du jour around their office and all the vets got in on it. I also queried about the kidneys being white - he said that is just the gross necropsy - the way it appeared. The histological showed nothing he said. I asked if the liver showed any friability (it frequently does if diseased), and he said no to friable, there was only minimal lipidosis - nothing to implicate anything. That's why I'm trying to get the rest of the results. It's like - okay she wasn't contagious, but what exactly was going on. So frustrating dealing with them - they move at their own speed. I keep telling myself - "be patient be patient....". Yeh, poor Jet. She was definitely my sweetheart -like they say it always seems to happen to the ones you really care about - time moves on though. Just introduced my babies to the 1 adult I have left. What a riot! And I got another cuddler in the batch.

 

[dawg53]

I'm glad you got the necropsy performed and shared the preliminary results with us. Now we know why nothing was working with Jet. Thankfully she's not suffering anymore.

 

[2greenboyz]

Thanks Dawg, and thanks for your help. I wish more people would follow up with results when we try to help out. Just wanted to say, the vet even seemed surprised to discover it was not trich. Sheesh- it sure had all the earmarks of trich but the tx didn't even make the growths change in color like I would expect. She really didn't suffer too much until just before I put her down. I was able to get her to eat up until the day before, her tail was always up she had lots of energy. But when she reached the point that she didn't feel good she really showed it (standard sick posture) and I knew it was useless to put her thru any more. RIP Jet.