Finally chicks after several years thanks to Peter Brown

[snaffle]

Each year for the past 4 years I would set 60 to 100 eggs in my incubator and under hens.

I would only have 3 to 6 chicks hatch out. I would put meds in the water and nothing improved.

I was finally put in touch with Peter Brown the "chicken doctor" from
FIRST STATE VET SUPPLY

http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/

who discussed my problem with me over the phone, suggested medications and supplements. I purchased each and every item he suggested.

A couple of weeks ago I had 3 buff cochin banties hatch out.
Another 6 would have from another hen if the hen hadnt decided to leave the nest a bit too soon.

Also... all the poopy butts cleared up!

Thank you Peter Brown

 

[walkswithdog]

Dude I would have scrapped that flock, shut down and sterilized the premises, the incubators and the house. Completely redone the coop floors and litter, probably rebuilt the nest boxes.

That kind of thing is a sign of SERIOUS infection/contamination. In fact if that current hatch is 3 out of more than 6 - you STILL need to scrap the lot, decontaminate and start over.

What have you been thinking? That you didn't seek immediate veterinary care and advice when you couldn't hatch a single thing in a SEASON, much less 3 years?

And you post a website and recommendation based on 3 chicks? GET A STATE POULTRY VET TO YOUR PREMISES NOW. Get the whole place and flock, tested and treated. And please don't go to shows or sales, with or without any of your birds. Likely your tires and shoes are contaminated.

 

[snaffle]

oh good grief walkswithdog..

get a grip.

I didnt write about the weak chicks during those years .. that just didnt make it.. or couldnt get out of the eggs.

Those 3 chicks that hatched out where the ONLY 3 eggs under that hen.

If you read my op slower you would have read that the other hen got off of her nest a few days earlier and left 6 eggs. Those 6 eggs had chicks in them that would have hatched.

golly whiz... you talk like I am a stupid imbecile.

Did you not read where I was trying medications over the shelf?

state inspector. good grief.
I can understand your concern but you are not here.

I do not go to shows so dont go worrying yourself.

IF I have a hatching problem next year I will contact the state inspector.

 

[snaffle]

walkswithdog

thank you for your suggestion

 

[walkswithdog]

I set about 100 eggs this year under hens and in incubators and got more than eighty chicks.

Despite MOST of this years flock being first time broodies, who do make mistakes.

You have a serious problem there. Setting that many eggs with that poor an outcome indicates serious issues.

Whether under broody or in an incubator. That's about a 90% plus failure rate for FOUR years.

Over the counter treatment is NOT going fix that kind of flock failure. You have either serious feed, serious contamination or serious disease problems. All of which could make chicks too weak to hatch or that die during incubation.

That's why I said get a VET. Get a poultry vet, the state VETS are really useful people. You need to get the flock tested. You need it addressed by a VET because over the counter will not fix the whole flock and isn't having "great" results because at this point it's systemic to your farm and flock.

Blindly treating over the counter can MASK serious disease or contamination issues. If you don't like frank opinions on an open public forum, sorry but anyone reading this needs to see this as a PERFECT example of what NOT to do.

Don't wait three or four years. Don't ask an over the counter sales representative how to treat an obvious flock management or disease issue. Get a vet out.

A 97% failure rate in hatching under any source - indicates serious issues.

No one else should think that this was a happy outcome. But more a sign of how not to do it.

 

[NancyP]

Just a question, but have you ruled out incubator problems? Maybe it's not a health issue.
Wanted to add are you sure the fertility is good?

 

[snaffle]

Nancy my first thought was that the incubator was a problem, so I borrowed 5 eggs from a friend who owned buff orpingtons and hatched 3.

I can understant anyone jumping the gun and thinking I have a serious epidemic going on here.

Even the simplest bacteria can cause infertility or a live fetus problem in any critter.

For me to go from such a terrible percentage to 9 chicks out of 9 or 10 eggs is proof to me that I am on the right track and the medications I was sold are working.

I have been on internet boards enough over the years and have seen people post questions about a dog, cat or horse issue, and have seen people slam bang advise them to "call the vet!!"
enough times to realize that not everyone who offers advice, is really experienced in animal health.

I tried to medicate and cure this problem myself for too many years, and in that time I would ask on a several boards or yahoo lists (even a poultry yahoo list) for help or advice. I would get NONE.

It wasnt until this year when someone told me about Peter Brown that I actually got good advice.

Just because a person has DVM behind their name does NOT mean they have experience in all aspects of critter health.

I would put more faith into the experiences of people with poultry before I would a vet who has never owned a chicken.

 

[NancyP]

Sorry I am no help

. I pray things get better for you. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be.
Nancy

 

[walkswithdog]

Quote:
That you don't even KNOW who your local farm vet with poultry experience is tells a LOT. And umm simple bacteria like Salmonellas are communicable and dangerous. And you let it run for years.

People didn't help you on lists, and groups because it's IMPOSSIBLE to diagnose over the internet. What Peter Brown did was throw a broad spectrum antibiotic at your poultry and hope.

And while it may have temporarily solved your issues, it's probably masking a remaining one. A flock broadly infected with bacteria require more than just a round of anti-biotics. Reinfection is likely without environmental change and even then, some will continue carriers if it is resistent. Every chick brought up subject to exposure.

You need to know what it is. Whether one round of antibiotics are going to fix it with remedial decontamination of equipment and coops or if you need to repeat it, if you need a specific bacteriacide for the coops/roosts/nests. In short, a poultry vet. Which there are a LOT of. They do farm practice, they often raise poultry. Mine has a nice line of show chickens.

You need to test. If you don't test it could all restart fairly swiftly, then you'd remedicate, it would fade, become more resistent, reappear, and you have a cycle not a solution. Find OUT what it is. Be sure you do what it takes to fight it.

The poultry guy up the street or the next county over cannot SEE what bacteria or other micro-organism it is that is doing it. It could be bacterial AND fungal, or mold. All of those are simple celled organisms that can permanently harm and reappear, after OTC anti-biotics.

All the while you could be transporting whatever it is all over the county on your shoes/clothes and tires. Gee thanks.

Once again. Folks at some point, it pays to find a vet in your county that knows and handles poultry. Virulent, recurrent fertility problems, hatch problems can be systemic infections due to bacteria, fungus, or mold and requires diagnosis.

Letting it go years, while you ask on lists and wonder why no one wants to diagnose online, is not good flock management and may cause harm to people other than yourself.

Find a vet, even when you dont need one. Your county extension agent will usually have several referals.

If you don't know your county extension agent - see about finding them. They're dead useful people - the often even know who is breeding what, well, in your area a real resource.

They can refer to vets that KNOW poultry and sometimes let you know of small farm assistance programs in your area.

If you have spare purebred birds the extension agent can hook you up with 4-H ers who really deserve to have good birds and an interest in poultry but cannot afford them.

Rather than sit on a dying farm with your head in the sand, seek actual specific diagnosis, follow veterinary advice and get the problem solved rather than masked. Good flock management and responsible poultry farming is up to us all, or they WILL pass more laws against the small flock holders and small farmers.

This is why not to sit on a problem for years. It's kind of cruel to the flock, and it's a public problem, both from a contamination standpoint and a public perception standpoint.

Harboring a disease or a bacterial contamination source is everyone's problem in his county.

Even the poultry guys he'd "rather" trust but didn't consult. Probably because they'd stone him at this point for ignoring it for years.

At the fairs/swaps/markets I attend the Old Poultry Guys, that I started talking to when I got into chickens in my county - through my extension agent, they point out folks. "That guy has bad chickens, sick chickens, never BUY from this one or that one." They all know someone with poor management, they tell each other.

Yes, good poultry people are a HUGE help. Find them. Talk to them. See who they work with and who they won't. Have them recommend a good poultry vet. Find your local, reliable resources before a problem even happens.

I have a local mentor. I have a local vet, I have only needed once but I KNOW who he is, he knows my face. I know my extension agent.

Poultry keeping is about more than just your flock, stuff leaves your place on your clothes, your tires, your shoes.

Flock management is just as important in a small closed flock as it is in a large one. Do the right thing, not the cheap one.

If we do not police ourselves, our rights to our small flocks will go away.