Fire ants and chickens ???

[Darnall]

Thanks

 

[toredacto]

Your mention of UF research (I think I clicked the link to reply the that one) into biological control helped me figure out what to research. UF has nice information about it some of what they have found: http://solutionsforyourlife.ufl.edu/hot_topics/sustainable_living/fire_ant_management.shtml

eXtension.org has an information here: http://articles.extension.org/pages/30546/natural-enemies-of-fire-ants

and the USDA has info here: http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/60360510/publications/Williams_and_deShazo(M-3897).pdf

none mention nematodes or any commercially biological control available to us. For fire ants I wouldn't waste money on worms or other parasite sold on the market today.

I hate it. We're faced with doing things that might make them move out of a particular area and likely split (multi-queen colonies will divide) or risk poisoning our girls and/or other critters plus other bugs. Maybe in time the biological measures states are using will significantly reduce the overall population. Maybe a biological remedy that really works will eventually be available for small scale use.

I really hope so.

 

[Wrooster]

It's refreshing to read something posted by someone who has done some research rather than "my cousin knows someone who...".

I understand your frustration. It's not likely we'll see government-level programs that will control fire ants biologically but that's what it would take to do it that way. At least they're working on it, although I notice that article on the USDA site is from 2004.

The UFL reference talks about "Least toxic pesticides" and the first one it mentions is Hydramethylnon, which is the active ingredient in Amdro. They talk about the disadvantage of the 2-step bait process where you broadcast bait (poison) and later treat the mounds. Broadcasting it may kill other ants. But if you only treat the mounds you avoid that problem and a surprisingly large amount of the Amdro will quickly disappear underground.as the ants take it home.

Amdro is not especially toxic to birds and mammals. It takes over 5 grams to kill a 1 kg rat if they eat it. (LD50 > 5000 mg/kg according to the Amdro MSDS.) You want to be careful of course and it's very toxic to fish. I wouldn't worry about using reasonable amounts of it in your yard and around the chickens. If they want to eat it, put a ring of chicken wire around the mounds you treat, but I think they'd rather eat the ants.

 

[toredacto]

Appreciate the feed back. I've had a couple mounds in the chicken yard for weeks now. I've put off treating them for fear I would 1) poison the my ladies 2) poison all the other bugs in the area

I live with my parents and my mom fought to keep pesticides off the property. I take care of their chickens and, of course, I love them (the chickens) and would never knowingly (After 7 years taking care of the parents' chickens I and still learning and make mistakes.) do anything to harm them.

The things is I also love how there are tons of worm castings everywhere after a rain and even an amazing amount of frogs all over the place since we've been getting rain on a regular basis.

I believe the abundance of frogs and worms around the place indicates the soil here is very healthy and the last thing I want to do is start making the place toxic like before my parents bought the place. There were little or no worm castings to be found when they first moved here.

In my research I read a woman who keeps chickens and whose husband owns a pest control business. She states that Amdro Fire Ant Block is the best "lest toxic" bait:
http://www.chickenkeepingsecrets.com/chicken-predators/kill-fire-ants-around-chickens/

She is very clear about using this over the other variety of Amdro and that one must provide a barrier to keep critters away from it in the first 24 hours. In that time the ants will typically have gathered all of it but if there is any left remove it.

On the other hand, there is this post to this forum: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/54463/beware-of-amdro-fire-ant-killer
warning us it's deadly to chickens - don't use it.

So, I am still deciding what to do. I'm in no hurry, The chicken yard has plenty of room for the chickens to avoid the ants and the mounds are out of the way.

The problem bugs me (get it?) a great deal and I really want the ants gone, but the chickens' health and that of the soil around here are more important, to me, than what is at the moment merely an eye sore and potential nuance with the sting hazard, etc..

I'm still considering a bait I have made before using stale or fresh, cheap corn chips pulsed in a food processor 'til it's the consistency of course sand. I then dumped it into a plastic bag and dusted the crumbs with roach power.

The ants will readily take it and when I have put it out in the kitchen for invading fire ants they eventually go away.

The trouble is I don't know if I killed the mound because the acid isn't detectable to the ants or did I just kill of enough that they moved on and possible split the mound.

If I try it on the mounds in the chicken yard will I make then move a few feet away and/or multiply the number of mounds as a result?

One thing is for certain: I will not broadcast anything that can kill anything but fire ants. Not ever. And, even outside the chicken yard, if I use a "least toxic" bait I will be putting wildlife netting around the area to keep wild critters from eating it.

Whatever I choose it will be the lesser of two evils (like so many decisions we make, right?) but isn't that the nature of so many decisions we have to make? I only hope to learn enough about what my options are and minimize the unintended consequences that to often accompany such a decision.

 

[weasel killer]

The best thing for FA is a liquid that you drown the whole mound. It kills them all queen included Raid makes a good one you mix with water 5 gallons and pour on the mound.

 

[freespeech995]

I buried catfish guts and catfish heads near a fire ant mound. I thought the fire ants would feast on them. The fire ants moved or died within a week.

 

[AmandaMBG]

So... I have question. A couple weeks ago I noticed some fire ants in my south yard. Not a whole lot. I couldn't find the mound (not surprising since it's a new lot and there is dirt piles everywhere until our yard is done). And because at the moment I can't keep my dogs out I decided it can't be that big of a deal so why risk ant bait. Well fast forward a week or so. I noticed two or three queens in my daughters kiddie pool (wasn't positive that's what they were at the time) and then perfect little pen holes started appearing all over the place. Like there has to be 50+ of them. We spent forever trying to find something that makes a burrow like that (about 1/4" wide perfect circle). We could find nothing. Then I realized that is what an ant hill would look like if all the top dirt was blown off.... It gets very windy here and dirt flies. Now I'm worried (after doing some research into fireants) that I have up to 100 new queens burrowed in the grown with their batch of eggs waiting to start a colony!! Will burning them out work at this stage if that is what it is? I can't just do nothing and there are all of the sudden no active ants so andro is out. I have a toddler and small hairless dogs and cats and chickens. Anyone with suggestions?

 

[Wrooster]

A quick Google search says fire ants have not reached Utah. Your description of multiple queens, assuming they are large and black, sounds like carpenter ants but they nest in wood. My test for fire ants is to disturb the top of the mound slightly with a stick. If the ants swarm up the stick they are probably fire ants and you want to drop the stick before they get to your hand.

IF they are fire ants IMO nothing is as effective as Amdro. If you want it to work the first time, that's what you should use. It's not terribly toxic to dogs, chickens or toddlers but I wouldn't want my kids eating it. It only needs to be around (not on) the mound. Put up a temporary fence if you have to. Shield the Amdro from wind with small rocks or boards or something if you have to.

But if they're not fire ants consider not bothering them and maybe they won't bother you.

 

[AmandaMBG]

I live in Southern UT right next to the AZ border. We definitely have fire ants here as the ants I saw are identical to them and were not nesting in wood (red not black) The only other large ant we have that lives in sand are harvester ants and they are very different looking. I understand Amdro is the best remedy but a lone new queen is not going to leave her eggs even if you tap on the top. My question was if I can burn out the new queens in their small holes. As that is what is described with pictures on Google.

A quick Google search says fire ants have not reached Utah. Your description of multiple queens, assuming they are large and black, sounds like carpenter ants but they nest in wood. My test for fire ants is to disturb the top of the mound slightly with a stick. If the ants swarm up the stick they are probably fire ants and you want to drop the stick before they get to your hand.

IF they are fire ants IMO nothing is as effective as Amdro. If you want it to work the first time, that's what you should use. It's not terribly toxic to dogs, chickens or toddlers but I wouldn't want my kids eating it. It only needs to be around (not on) the mound. Put up a temporary fence if you have to. Shield the Amdro from wind with small rocks or boards or something if you have to.

But if they're not fire ants consider not bothering them and maybe they won't bother you.

 

[Justinv]

I have successfully got rid of fire ants on my property by using dry molasses at 20lbs per 1,000 sq ft (step 3 from link below). I had to apply it twice to get rid of most. Then if any mounds do come up, which isn't very often, I use a mound drench of 4 ounces of molasses and orange oil per gallon of water (step 2 in the link below).

Check out this website below for the details, I listen to his radio show weekly, he's from Dallas but the radio show is national and it's all organic.

https://www.dirtdoctor.com/garden/Fire-Ant-Control-that-Works_vq2316.htm